Posts by Fenix

    Each time someone is talking about PvP, there are PvE trollers who try to ruine it. I know some of them are asking on discord to come ruined this topic. They are trolling here so that we can not do a proper debate. They are doing this on purpose to annoy PvP players .. =/


    Everything has already been well explained thanks to Rokujou and my original post, we don't need to fall into their trap and try to explain them again. Please ignore PvE trollers so we can have an usefull debate that can progress.


    In order to bring something new to the debate I want to suggest this:


    Gameforge : I think giving a huge gold buff on CS (Corsair) battleground VG quest can be a good idea. PvE players will make more CS to get more gold after their dungeon, so it will be easier for everyone to find a match. If the reward is good enough, some of them will have a routine which include CS. It will help PvE players to do something when they don't have coins and It will help to solved the issue about pvp gold inexistant reward.

    *heavy breath*


    Edit: The base of the topic is the lack of enchantment correction with downgrading system. As PvE gear does not have any of these 2 points, it's nonesense and offtopic to compare them.



    Everything in your two messages is about "Do not make PvP system easier". Please, read the first phrase of the first message of the topic.

    • Do you want to "NOT MAKE PVP SYSTEM EASIER" ? Indeed everything in your two messages is about that. Did you read my post ? ME TOO I don't want to make it easier, nobody said they wanted it easier. It's about making it less frustrated and you can't tell the difference..


    • Do you want to "NOT MAKE DEBATE ABOUT PVP SYSTEM" ? We are PvP passionate players who are trying to figure solutions on how to make pvp system gear less frustrated without making it easier. What is wrong with it ? Debating is the basis for positive and intelligent changes


    Exemple: One solution I gave is to add a very low enchantement correction. It's not making it easier because it is so low that it's negligible. But it's starting to have an impact when you are very unlucky (remember the x300 ? It is decreasing this ratio without changing the average tries number). What do you propose?


    You don't understand and you're not reading. You didn't see my arguments and you're repeting yourself, we should both stop now as it is pointless and offtopic. This topic is for PvP players who understand the frustration problem inside the PvP community, who have friends who stopped the game or lost everything because of this system.


    Please stay on the topic, It's about PvP gear system. I don't want to get lost in drama, I want this post to stay clean =/.


    Greetings,


    PS: Your numbers don't make sense. Unlucky 100%, who decided to that ? Can you send me your simulation code ? I don't think you have one. Unlucky does not mean he upgraded his stuff at 100%, it means: after 10000 simulations (simulating 10000 players trying to upgrade their stuff), you save the most unlucky one and the luckiest one. You can't use number as you want, it has to be accurate and argued.

    Hello Vanquished,


    Thank you for your feedback !


    You can't compare the amount of gold spent for PvE stuff and PvP stuff. Why ? Because money value is not the same and don't have the same impact. In PvE you get a lot more money than in PvP, the economy behind is totally different. As I mentioned in my paragraph about Gold in PvP, It's almost impossible to farm gold while doing PvP.


    However I'm talking about the disparity between lucky/unlucky player. It's weird because you use my quote and compare flat amount of gold that is nonesense, instead of comparing the difference ratio as I'm doing in my post.

    Quote

    Player with some luck (he enchants everything once he reaches 30% success chance) will spend 6,416,772G to enchant the weapon to HO+3

    Unluckiest player (until the mathematic probability reaches 100%) will spend 20,336,373G to enchant the weapon to HO+


    RESULT: there is a factor x3 between these two numbers for PvE. As mentioned above, there is a factor x300 for PvP. Do you see the difference ?

    You didn't understand this part of my post. Did I say it was too expensive ? Did I compare with PvE stuff ? No. What i'm saying is that the ratio between lucky/unlucky player is very huge in PvP and it's a consequence to the "no enchantment correction" + "retrograde" system that is creating frustration among PvP players.


    Then I said that the ratio between "gold we get in PvP" and "gold we use in PvP" is very huge, so we have to farm golds for months and in only 1 week, we waste everything. It is not the case in PvE because for PvE you get A LOT more golds with VG quests and diamond. Even if you have to use more gold for your stuff, PvE activities are giving so much gold compare to PvP ones that the ratio i'm talking about is still larger in PvP. I have listed everything that make this ratio huge in PvP (large number of tries, consumables, reparation, low amount of gold in VG quests, defeats give nothing, very very low diamonds rate in jackpot, etc..).


    There is no reason to compare PvE gear and PvP gear here, it would be great to stay on the topic which is PvP gear system.


    Greetings,

    Wow, thanks for all your feedbacks !


    Yeah I know about class balance, desync & proxy which are problems that need to be solved, but the main topic of my post is more about the gear progression with enchantement system, innerwear system and jewelry system.


    When I saw that people were disappointed with the new pvp event, I wanted to do a topic on the reason why. Even if the pvp event is a good step forward, I think we need a permanent solution from BlueHole & Gameforge as mentioned in my first post.

    Hello guys,


    First of all, note that I understand that PvP Stuff is a very end-game goals and I don't want to make another topic about making it easier, I want to make it fair and highlight problems.

    I see a lot of topics about PvP problems but there is nothing which explain the source of the problem. Moreover I see no data about it and some problems are not even mentioned. So let's begin !


    Enchantement System:

    • Despair of the failures / frustrations.

    • Lack of golds


    Innerwear Sytem:

    • Impossible to do.

    New Jewelry Upgrade :

    • No material in Bellicarium Shop: we can only get them in PvE.



    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _


    Enchantement System


    1) Despair of the failures / frustrations:


    Explication: The problem is not the number of try or the amount of plate, neither the sucess rate. The frustration comes from:


    • The downgrading system.

    • No enchantement correction.


    Because of downgrading, players start +8, waste 5000 plates and retrograde +6 at the end. Because of no enchantement correction, players can waste 5000 plates and it's like they did nothing. The combinaison of these two things is creating the frustation and the despair of the failures. Moreover one of the main aspect of the frustration is psycollogical, people are saying "I did all this for nothing", in fact they even loose golds.


    Data (Weapon): Sucess rate of +7 to +9 is hidden, so I calculated them according to the logical continuation of +1 to +6. (100% -> 75% -> 55% -> 40%). However these rates seem higher than the reality according to my personal tries so let's say it's the "best option" we can have.




    The interesting data we need is the difference between a lucky player and a unlucky player. After simulation, I gather the following result:



    Meaning that in order to reach +9 on Weapon, the most unlucky player used 21,467 plates & 5.3M golds meanwhile the luckiest players used 95 plates & 15k golds. It's over 300 000% difference, I think that's kind of huge.


    Suggestions:

    BlueHole: If they really wants to keep its downgrading system, they should add an enchantement correction for +7,+8,+9 (persistent even when downgrading). For example, adding only 0.1% of enchantement correction will divided by 2 the disparity between lucky & unlucky players. Moreover, pvp players can't say "it was totally useles" anymore because it is giving enchantement correction. They can adjust the correction chance according to the difficulty they want.

    Gameforge: Adding an event with % rate is cool but it's only making it easier, it's not descreasing the frustration or the problem's source. The best things GF can do (on their side) is to increase the gold income of pvp players so they only loss what they farmed. Indeed after 1 week of PvP farming, we can do a lot of tries but we don't have the golds for that, so we have to use all our gold reserve without being able to recover it. More details in the next section.


    2) Lack of golds:

    Explication: It is almost impossible to compensate money looses from enchantement system & consumables. It is very slow to increase our amount of gold. So we're loosing and loosing our gold with no way to take them back. It's great to increase the amount of Plate, but it's nonesense if you don't increase the amoung of gold. We have to spent months of gold saving for one week of plate farming.


    • Low gold rewards.

    • Nothing is tradeable (so nothing can be sold).

    • Upgrading the stuff is very expensive because of the huge number of tries.

    • BGs Consumables are very expensive.

    • Plate/pieces box shards or banking scrolls are very expensive.


    Data (Weapon): According the same previous simulation, the average number of gold per try is 6200golds. Shore example: 800golds per win => 2,400gold and 24 plates boxes = 2 try = 6,200*2 = 12,400 golds. So you spent 12,400 golds and you get only 2,400golds. Moreover 12,400golds is only for the weapon enchantement, you can usually do your weapon and your boots at the same time, and it does not count neither BG consumables or plate box shard.



    Using healing potions in Shore/Corsair make a really huge difference, it's 500golds/potion so if you use only 1 you're already in debt. If it's something only for the end of the "very end-game pvp goal" then it's too OP because it's making a huge difference in fights. The 2nd consumable which reduce by 20% the damage is even more OP but it's 1200golds.



    When you reached your weapon +9, you don't really need Violet Plate anymore, if you want to transform 3000 plates, you have to spent at least 1M golds with no guarentee of result.


    Because of all these factors we need to save money for months and we waste it all in only 2/3days. I understand that there has to be some times to save money but it's actually too huge in PvP.


    Suggestions:

    BlueHole: Remove (or make it free with a longer cooldown) the BGs consumables. Reduce the price of plate box shard.

    Gameforge: Increase a lot the amount of gold earned in Shore/Corsair and increase a lot diamond rate in jackpot.


    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _



    Innerwear System


    Explication: Did you know it exist ? I'm sure most of you don't know what is this thing. This system has not been tested by BlueHole. It's is not possible to do it in a lifetime, so everyone just gave up, nobody has a good pvp innerwear in the game. It's such nonesense that nobody is even trying to get them. In order to get 1 blue, you need 3 green. To get a gold I you need 3 blue. To get a gold II you need 3 gold I. To get a new gold II with new stat you need 3 gold II. You will see the absurdity below.




    Data: As we don't have information about sucess rate, I presume it follows the same pattern as pvp stuff system. You can have 16 cube tokens per day (16 vg quests) + 2 cube token boxes from first corsair win & first shore win.




    On average it takes 193 days of intense farming everyday to get the last innerwear. So if you're not lucky you can spent 3years or more before getting one good pvp innerwear. Absurd ? Has this system been tested before ? I really don't think so.. Knowing that it takes 10 days of intense farming to be lv70, you can have 19 characters lv70 before getting 1 good pvp innerwear. (I almost forgot: the stat on the innerwear are random so you have to do this several time before getting good stats :D ).

    Suggestions:

    BlueHole: Change the system or reduce the cube token box price.

    Gameforge: Add 4 cubes in each jackpot so we can have enough cubes to get a good innerwear after months of farming (instead of years of farming).




    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

    New Jewelry Upgrade


    No material in Bellicarium Shop: we can only get them in PvE.




    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _


    Thanks for reading, If you want my simulation code you can ask me and I will send it to you via pm. I'm waiting for your feedbacks =).

    Do you agree with me ?


    Greetings,

    Fenix.


    PS: I edit this post a lot in order to make it more understandable and readable (and correct mistakes), I'm not adding any more information.

    Comme ça fait longtemps et que je vais surement oublié de donner la réponse, je la donne maintenant et nimporte qui peut poster une nouvelle image pour qu'on devine le film ^^.


    La réponse était:


    Star Wars, épisode VIII : Les Derniers Jedi


    C'est sur l'île où est Luke, ce sont les derniers livres des Jedi.


    A votre tour !

    No :<. C'est un film de SF sortie il y a moins de 3 ans ^^.


    Je pensais que ça allait facile car c'est assez récent ! Mais apparemment pas trop, c'est vrai que la scène n'est pas la plus représentatif du film xD.

    Ok I agree, but in order to be even fairer as you suggested, I would add these things too:


    • We remove enchantement correction on PvE Stuff, so each time you try and fail, it's like all your previous hard work was useless.

    • We add durability on PvE stuff so you have to repair it if enchantment fails.

    • We add decrease stuff posibility if enchantment fails.

    • Half instances you do will reward nothing to simulate the fact that loosing in PvP battleground is rewarding nothing.

    • PvP crystals and plates are not tradeable, so we do the same for PvE materials.

    • We reduce all gold rewards for PvE rewards to give 2000golds maximum (=1000golds per instances with point .4).


    Now it's fair.


    PS: Sorry for my troll answer :< (but it's a troll post soooo... )

    Hello,

    In most games, players are directly perma banned for cheating. Gameforge was nice to make a 2weeks ban first and because of that people abused it. With the increasing number of cheaters in the game, it can't be wrong for Gameforge to tighten its sanctions. There is no point in making rules if you allow people to break them. So I agree with Gameforge recent sanctions.


    PS: @Moderator, I'm sorry my first post brings so much haters and offtopics, it was relative to the original content. =/

    Hello Senshanth . I'm honored to have each words of my previous message analyse and commented, you should really like me.


    Funny,


    "1st quote", you have deleted phrases in between. When I said that It was after giving global examples not relative to my guildmates.


    "2nd & 5th quote", thanks for rephrasing me, you are able to explain what I said but "it means almost nothing".


    "4th quote", Yes sorry i'm offtopic, counter-arguments to original post quote "70% players use that" can't be that a huge amount of players is not using it. What was I thinking.


    Quote

    This is their opinion and everyone respects that but you gotta admit that if proxy was truly and fully against the rules, every players who are using it would be banned already.

    They can't detect all modules of proxy that's why. They can detect fishing: they got banned. + Gameforge ban proxy players when they have evidences + Gameforge has already made posts explaining that it is forbidden. But we can ask Athena , is proxy 'not truly' against the rules ?

    Quote

    I'm not gonna say 90% of Tera players used that , let's just say 70% minimally,


    I don't agree.

    Every players I play with in my guild don't use proxy. Moreover low level players and new lv65 players don't use it. As long as most of non-tryharder players. And all players who want to play fair doesn't use it neither.


    All your friends use it does not mean everyone uses it. But the fact that you are thinking that is very interessing and it shows that proxy has become "a normal things" for players who are using it or players who are friends with proxy players. Mentality of these players has to change drastically, banning people is a good way to do this .


    PS: However, I agree that 70% of the very hard try-harders in PvE use it, but it remains a minority among the vast tera community.

    Bonjour,


    Je sais que le support pouvait il y a quelques temps délié des costumes (max 3 ou 5) mais malheureusement je ne pense pas que cela s'applique aux montures.

    It's a long term goal but we already have our gear to deal with. Farming is not the preferred thing of EU or NA players :<. Please GF can you add a permanent exp event/boost for quest/mob ? I don't know how Tera can have new players nowadays, the game has become so unnecessarily complex.


    People who stay on this game don't want to spend all their time farming =/.

    Change this Enchanting System or do any form of events (Double Loot or Double Enchanting Success rate) that makes it less cancer for your playerbase.


    Athena   Aureli

    I think changing the enchanting system or the sucess rate will take a lot of time. But in the meanwhile we need a perma event/buff with a huge increase of loot (x2 or x3). I know so many people who gave up the game because of this new horrible enchanting system, we need GF to do something against it.


    It's just sad to loose so many players when just an event could fix it =/.

    Salut !


    Même si je ne joue pas reaper, j'ai lu ton guilde et je le trouve complet et bien expliqué (même pour moi qui ne connait pas cette classe).


    Peut-être manque-t-il quelques images pour le gear et ta page de talent. Ca fait plaisir de voir des français motivés pour faire des guides.


    Bon jeu !