This is probably the worst mmo gear patch I have ever played (rant post)

    They did this game completely "pay to win" (because no one wants to spend 15 mins for 3 pcs. of things for enchanting, when you need 16 of them for one attempt on +9)


    And the result - deserted servers...


    You are sooo professional, Gameforge!)

    Well I think a lot of people will look at my posts and Sonata's posts and think we're just whining. I admit my writing is not always the most concise but anyway here is what I wanted to say.

    So here is a game I just played. It's Saturday and people are off work so there's a few people on and I am getting a few queues for maps other than the bottom two.


    Now this party in the attachment is currently what I would say is an average to slightly above average party that will come through this dungeon (fusion lab). There are people that do more DPS than this but I would say at this point in the patch a lot of those people would be the credit cards and/or scripters. So basically this is a pretty good party over all for queueing with randoms.


    The lance is from the genjukoo clan or whatever. One of the top groups around. He's not a script and he's slightly overgeared actually. I think that lance is +6 or +7 gear.


    Now I can tell the people that ran these numbers for this patch and set up these situations probably don't tank because asking a tank to hold Rogash for 10 minutes (especially a lance) is a long hold. That's 10 minutes of playing keyboard ninja. Your hands get tired, the adrenaline rush (lol) turns into "how much longer" after about 6 minutes lol. It's tough. No, you don't just stand there and hold your shield up and press the occasional button. It's a lot of animation canceling and a lot of hand work especially when trying to hold aggro for robo-scripters and credit cards (thank you for supporting the game) that have better gear than you.


    Now I have played Tera for about 3 patches now so about 1.5 years. Some people would say I am a noobie which is fine. I have no ego. But nevertheless I still have 1.5 years of queues to reference for comparison. Historically from what I have seen the majority of the beginner/ new player group does not want to play dungeons longer than about 6 minutes. If you get people in a dungeon playing 8 to 15 minutes the ONLY reason people were willing to commit to that in past days was because the loot was worth it (like some people in the party would get a 15k mask or 18k belt or something like that).

    Some of the maps are just too long. I get the point that the idea was to make loot more precious this patch but the end result has been people playing keyboard ninja for sometimes 10 to 15 minutes for a few pollen and 1 or 2 material pieces.

    Quote from Sonata

    They did this game completely "pay to win" (because no one wants to spend 15 mins for 3 pcs. of things for enchanting, when you need 16 of them for one attempt on +9)


    And the result - deserted servers...


    You are sooo professional, Gameforge!)

    Gameforge sold out for a bit extra profit and it costed them in the end.

    Quote from RQSE

    Now this party in the attachment is currently what I would say is an average to slightly above average party that will come through this dungeon (fusion lab). There are people that do more DPS than this but I would say at this point in the patch those people would be the credit cards and/or scripters. So basically this is a pretty good party over all for queueing with randoms.

    Not sure if you try to be a comedian, but if you are not completely new to the game you should do at least 6 m/s in FLNM with gear level needed to queue for it.

    A party with the minimum gear level requirements can do it in between 3 and 4 minutes if the players have a good idea how to play their classes.


    If you need more than 5 minutes to clear that dungeon, you have at least 1 player with you who does not know what to do with their class.

    If you need 10 minutes, they are all learning how to play, hands down. It's not about the dungeon.


    If you really think FLNM takes long to clear, then I recommend you to drop the game for this patch, because the dungeons between ~ +5 and ~ +8 take more than 3 times as long with that gameplay and are not more rewarding.

    Quote from Vanli

    A party with the minimum gear level requirements can do it in between 3 and 4 minutes if the players have a good idea how to play their classes.

    Well we are both free to express our opinions. You have your opinion on what you see. My opinion is you are 100% wrong. Minimum gear (as in a totally new player progressing without cash) would probably be something like the free belt/brooch/mask maybe 1 or 2 randomly bought purple accessores with random rolls and +3 yellow gear pieces. That would be the "minimum".

    I play everyday for hours and there is 0% chance that you can clear that dungeon in 3 minutes with that level of "minimum" gear (not the ace dungeon, the regular fusion lab with a random party). Maybe with a script.... maybe (lol). You're going to have to record it and showcase it for me to believe it. If you can record it and show me I will apologize without question. Until then, your text is just text.

    By the way, I can understand where you're coming from to some degree. I have seen +3 purple gear pieces with really nice accessory rolls, gold relic/halidom (etc.) do nice damage output relative to the map they are on. Nice accessory rolls and +5 gold pieces from prior patches are not the minimum though are they. No, those are old players (usually die hards/try hards often with a touch of credit card). But yes going in with the absolute "minimum" with a random 5 person party and seeing you finish that dungeon (fusion normal mode) for the team in 3 minutes. I would have to see you record it and share it to believe it. Record your screen and run your mouse over the most absolute minimum gear required in your player profile then queue fusion normal mode with random parties. Also, show what toolbox mods/program in task manager you have on if you want to be 100% legit. If finish in under 3 minutes consistently with multiple random parties = full apology from me to you. You gave your honest opinion and I gave mine. No offense taken, none intended. Just honest conversation. <3


    Here's some of me playing since I talked mad text trash:

    I play sorcerer, priest, mystic, brawler, lancer and a touch of zerk all medium to medium high level. I do okay. My play is not perfect for sure but I learn everyday. I already changed up a lot of things from that video there like my opening "burns" (if you want to call it that). I am not pro or anything but I carry a lot of teams over the last 1.5 years (as many of you have) and do my part 97% of the time I play with a team because I feel obligated to provide at least decent team work for a group activity. I haven't recorded anything in this patch yet but I do still play those accounts everyday (for now). I've been around long enough to know that most people who watch that video will say I am a noob because everyone plays different but hey post your own stuff if you can do better with a brawler.

    Anyway, if you want to record your claim I'd be happy to acknowledge your text statements. Until then as a medium to medium high-ish skilled filthy casuaI, I still think balance is off in this patch with the current dungeon/gear progression and could be adjusted in a few different ways. This is only my opinion. I probably won't talk about it anymore and will just suffer or go to other game. I've already made about 6 posts basically complaining about balance in the last month. I have said more than my part and I feel that the staff here in this forum probably don't have control to make those changes anyway. They can mostly only watch us complain (lol). See you in game and try to have fun. Cheers friend. :beer:

    Edited 5 times, last by RQSE ().

    Quote from RQSE

    I play everyday for hours and there is 0% chance that you can clear that dungeon in 3 minutes with that level of "minimum" gear (not the ace dungeon, the regular fusion lab with a random party). Maybe with a script.... maybe (lol). You're going to have to record it and showcase it for me to believe it. If you can record it and show me I will apologize without question. Until then, your text is just text.


    Join any LFG or browse moongourd. I am not going to prove to you that the sky is blue.

    If you like to suffer through instance matching that's fine, but don't call these groups average. Most players who use instance matching are exceptionally bad.

    Well friend, my belief since I have came to Tera on day 1 is that we have to provide a path for our noobs because noobs are what turn into medium tier players and die hard players (and credit cards and whale server providers). If you can't hook a noob into a game by letting them act stupid and play bad while still making progression and growing stronger then they are just going to leave and then we have nothing eventually.


    I consider the instance matcher one of the main features of the game. To tell the community to outright dismiss it to avoid having to help new "exceptionally bad" players just shows all kinds of problems in itself and I know the reason you are not shy to say that is because that's actually what most people think.

    By the way, I also made a post in the feedback section about 2 weeks ago SPECIFICALLY mentioning this exact problem that old/experienced players don't have a reason to help or play alongside new players in this patch (not that they ever do but still). I recommended partial adventure coin compensation like the last patch. I know that's almost a joke to people who really know how to play tera but at least "I tried" (lol). I view this as problem because in tera (as you know) you have to talk to and watch people better than you to learn and progress. Without a reason to play together this stops the limited number of people from making games happen and keeping the game active. As you pointed out: why should anyone play with a bad player? I mean it doesn't make sense to do so in this Tera game unless an individual just likes to help others or is feeling generous. You're actually right.

    But still, since my philosophy (again) since day 1 is that someone has to help them (our noobs in this patch) to create ..the game being played and not a ...totally....dead game (lol).... yes sometimes I "suffer" for a bit and help and occasionally train a student for a bit and that sort of thing. Hopefully people helping each other has helped keep tera alive a little bit because Tera is sincerely a good game over all and worth 1 play through.

    But anyway friend you do you and I will do me. That's what games are for is having fun. I have fun by helping others and seeing them progress and learn. I just wish this patch was a little bit easier on our new people. In regards to the 3 minute fusion claims: I didn't think you would showcase you text claims but it's fine. I didn't really care that much to be honest with you I just had a different opinion and chose to speak my mind. :S

    Edited 10 times, last by RQSE ().

    Quote from Vanli

    Join any LFG or browse moongourd. I am not going to prove to you that the sky is blue.

    If you like to suffer through instance matching that's fine, but don't call these groups average. Most players who use instance matching are exceptionally bad.

    This right here is part of the problem.


    What happened to wanting to teach people? Instead of sitting here complaining "bad players" how about you actually bother teaching them, which I can 100% guarantee you don't give a rat's ass to try to do.

    Instead of helping the problem of "bad players" you're just sitting here whining. Keep whining, don't provide any assistance to new people, that's totally the way we're going to solve the problem.


    I'm going to just call you bad in general, cause you really are and it shows from this statement. Not a bad player, not bad in-game, just bad in general. Yeesh. Get the stick out your butt and maybe you'll see things differently other than "exceptionally bad players I want nothing to do with".


    Yes there will be those that will beg to do things their own way, but as one of those people who used to sit here and have to solo IM in order to learn, and then get kicked for "not doing enough damage" or "sucking", you're part of the problem and why the game is where it is, and why people are constantly using LFG and Global to look for Ice Throne queues and not finding enough to their liking; because you can't be willing to extend a helping hand to help people learn.


    Warned | Shiro

    Given you want to improve at all and you notice that the lowest dungeons to run (MC and TR) take really, really long, I assume that you would stop and start to think at one point, about how you can improve your gameplay.

    If you do, then you will start to look for information and get a grasp of what to do with your class, which includes looking for the correct rolls.

    If you don't, then you will still be an exceptionally bad player by the time you can queue for FLNM.


    Quote from RQSE

    I consider the instance matcher one of the main features of the game.

    It was until we got cross server LFG, not anymore.



    Quote from RQSE

    But still, since my philosophy (again) since day 1 is that someone has to help them (our noobs in this patch) to create ..the game being played and not a ...totally....dead game (lol).... yes sometimes I "suffer" for a bit and help and occasionally train a student for a bit and that sort of thing. Hopefully people helping each other has helped keep tera alive a little bit because Tera is sincerely a good game over all and worth 1 play through.

    You aren't helping anyone just by using IM and doing very slow runs.

    If someone isn't well equipped, then you can help them by running with them, or making their runs faster if you are equipped yourself.

    However this is not the case here. You don't help players who lack understanding of their class by making their runs faster or carrying them. What you can do is teach them or provide the knowledge ressources, but this is only half as effective if you would need that help yourself to begin with.



    Quote from RQSE

    But anyway friend you do you and I will do me. That's what games are for is having fun. I have fun by helping others and seeing them progress and learn.

    If it's fun for you to do these runs, then I have no idea why you started to complain about runtime in the first place. But it is getting extremely dishonest if you use a run like this to proof a point that dungeon balancing would be bad, knowing that you are playing with exceptionally bad players to "help" them.

    You are being utterly dishonest.

    I did not complain about bad players and I do my part in helping to improve new players. I am a regular IM player as well. You do not even know me, yet you are baiting and shfting the goalpost hard.


    All I have a problem with is if you complain about dungeon balancing by using a very low dps run as an example.

    Quote from Vanli

    You do not even know me

    Well several of us here don't know our in game names so really some of us don't even know who each other are in game so let's not get into drawing swords and measuring length when we don't even play together much.

    For us, the thread is about the patch in general and gear in it whether it needs adjustment or etc. I feel like the patch is ...okay-ish..... but it could be better and a lot more healthy for the community for the reasons explained in the lengthy posts I wrote above (if anyone even cares).

    If you guys feel the patch could be better in some way or what problems you have with the patch I think that would be more interesting to read for viewers rather than any of us getting into measuring how long their Tera sword is. Let's just talk about game balance and game progression for players and things like that.

    Quote from Vanli

    Given you want to improve at all and you notice that the lowest dungeons to run (MC and TR) take really, really long, I assume that you would stop and start to think at one point, about how you can improve your gameplay.

    If you do, then you will start to look for information and get a grasp of what to do with your class, which includes looking for the correct rolls.

    If you don't, then you will still be an exceptionally bad player by the time you can queue for FLNM.

    How do you expect people to learn their class in MC and TR? Have you used MC and TR through IM? Because that is the only way average/casual, new player can get a party, no one in LFG is going to accept DPS in legendary gear +1 or with 1 or 2 purple pieces, because everyone wants fast, clean runs. Let's say player wants to improve his gameplay, looked up right rotation and ques MC, the chance to get a tank and be able at least try to do his proper rotation is very low. Most likely, he will get another 2 dps and they will die in order of who gets aggro, rez and die, rez and die until boss dies. Range runs from boss and dies, melee runs after boss more than attacks and when ranges dies, boss turns around and kills the melee. I can't see anyone enjoying game that way, let alone stick around long enough to get to 516 and then even attempt to have right/good rolls.

    I can understand from both point of view. If I imagine as myself as a new player that is ready to queue for FL, with no idea of even how card works, EP, advanced skills and then do 1m in FL and get flamed for doing subar dps. I would never want to play this game again. So many players just insta leave when the dps is too low in IM and leave the party behind wasting people time.


    BHS messed up the dungeon balance and rewards for the time spent/difficulty. There should be something in between TR/MC and FL for new players to get adjusted to their class before they can go for the harder dungeons.


    Also what you need to consider is time spent waiting for queue and then only get trash loot spending 8-10min.

    Even now with fast runs 3-4mins FL doesn't even feel rewarding.

    My argument in the feedback section Jimmy was that they should just switch up TR and catacombs to 5 person dungeons. Just a place for new players to learn their class post apex with a proper formation where they don't really need too much gear and can still grow their character and make some money to upgrade it (belt, brooch, mask, accessories, gear, etc.).


    The 3 man stuff works fine for us oldies but for new players it's rough sometimes with certain parties. I've been in more than one situation in those first 2 dungeons where I was basically soloing the dungeon by myself for 2 noobs. I don't mind it. I was happy to help. However, they die 8 or 10 times and they have had enough. The healer is not there to help cover up their mistakes and let them learn. They don't understand. They get frustrated. Multiple times have I seen them rage drop in the middle of the dungeon. It's not about how good you are or how much you can help them. it's that they don't understand and they are not having fun. It often doesn't help them to send them 10 links on how to get good either because most of them just want to play a little bit. That's it. They don't want to get a bachelor's degree in Tera. Maybe they have kids. They have 1 hour to play their little archer. Maybe learn 1 or 2 things on the side. that's it.

    My argument was that what would help them more than anything would be to just have normal 5 man formation in those first 2 learning dungeons (or any easy dungeon) so that they can use their class properly-ish and learn in those first 2 dungeons how things work while they get stronger.

    That's what I wrote in the feedback section anyway. If you guys have a different view on what would be healthy to do there I would be interested in reading it.

    Quote from Jimmy

    How do you expect people to learn their class in MC and TR? Have you used MC and TR through IM?

    I don't and I never said this.

    I said that if you want to improve, you will start looking up information by the time you notice that your MC and TR runs take a really long time.

    That can be set into practice by either queueing into a trinity setup in these dungeons, getting a premade trinity group for these dungeons, or by attempting to play them to your best capability without trinity and then getting more practice in FLNM.

    However you will still be a bad player by the time you enter FLNM if you didn't practice beforehand and the time that you need to clear FLNM should not be used to show that the dungeon is badly balanced.

    Quote from RQSE

    Well several of us here don't know our in game names so really some of us don't even know who each other are in game so let's not get into drawing swords and measuring length when we don't even play together much.

    For us, the thread is about the patch in general and gear in it whether it needs adjustment or etc.

    Yeah, let's not draw any swords darling.

    By the way, I'm so curious, can you point out to me how Levins post was "about the patch in general and gear in it whether it needs adjustment or etc." and how he was not drawing any swords? Thank you for staying on topic.

    Well Vanli you called me a comedian as your first reaction when you replied to me in this thread. He (Levin) called you bad and said something about your butt. I think you read about maybe half of what I typed. I read about... 2/3 of what you typed. I guess it's normal forum stuff. I mean if someone signs on and writes on a forum it's usually because they are mad about something.

    But anyway my casual opinion is also that I think they should add one dungeon right there between TR and fusion lab as well that is a 5 man casual. Something you can play with bad gear and something that's easy for a new little tanker. That's my opinion.

    So my wish list would be:
    -5 man catacombs (adjust boss HP appropriately for 5)
    -5 man TR (adjust boss HP appropriately for 5)
    -1 casual 5 man dungeon before fusion (something sort of easy for the tanker to learn better tanking)
    -Fusion 20% lower boss HP
    -Complement system added back in (adventure coins) so the top gear players don't feel a total loss for helping the new players and they can do their speed runs and show how big their swords are for the moongourd.

    -I would also add that Gold Caimen back in because that was so cool to maybe get 1 purple piece of gear or purple accessory or maybe 2 extra pieces of yellow gear if it popped out of the boss. That was so much fun to be on guard in case the gold caimen surprised the party. You could make it like...15% chance each dungeon for it to pop out of the boss and just keep it in the whole patch. That would be a major win.


    I would be really happy with that. That would be quite nice. Would donate to keep the servers up 100%. Once again, this is just my opinion. I would be really interested in reading anyone else's wish list for the current dungeon progression (if you would change anything) in this patch. It's sort of fun to talk about.

    Quote from RQSE

    Well Vanli you called me a comedian as your first reaction when you replied to me in this thread.

    Where did I do this? Can you quote me?


    Quote from RQSE

    He (Levin) called you bad and said something about your butt.

    To help you out, he said that:


    - I am whining

    - I don't provide any assistance to new people

    - I am bad

    - I want nothing to do with exceptionally bad players


    All of which are repulsively wrong. But apparently making wrong and personal accusations is how you express your opinion about the patch in general. Not sure if that will help you achieve what you want.