The feedback BHS will never read

  • 1 - Feedstock farm

    Probably the most discussed problem and the reason for the double drop event expansion in both duration and location applied. Please don't be stupid and say it's not like that because we are in fact in a double drop event and that won't last forever... All below is out of double drop event.


    AQ, RM and GV seems to drop 5 to 6 feedstock each run. You are more or less expected to get at least 1 feedstock each run. The type of feedstock drops more or less in the same proportion.


    The problem lies into the enchanting system, here are the estimated cost of feedstock and gold for each level. From 0 to 10 the math is pretty much accurate but from 10 to 15 is expected to be over the values shown since i didn't included the chances of breaking or reducing level on it (i'm still calculating an approximate value and my data sample is too small :c).


    Feedstock needed estimated per piece Gold needed estimated per piece
    Upgrade 0-10 31.87 24656.64
    Upgrade 10-15 84.10 65047.62
    Total 115.97 89704.26


    Doesn't seems so bad at start since mmo is all about farm and all but this 3 dungeons are basically introduction dungeons and you are locked at them at least until you get almost full +15 (you can have boots +14 for 498).


    Even if you had a party passing all feedstock to you, never break any piece a single time, never decrease a level a single time, dropping always 6 feedstocks, the total total number of runs needed would be from 87 to 116 more or less. I don't know why but before the double event i was getting a consistent drop of 5 per run while now its giving 12, so yeah, at 5 per run drop rate the total goes from 116 to 174 runs more or less.


    A TC player can do around 13 GV in a character or 12 RM/AQ. That means a minimum of 7 characters spending all coins in GV at a consistent drop rate of 6 feedstock if you don't loose your sanity on the way.

    Now from the new player perspective, which nobody ever cares to think of, you have a max 2 characters with a cap of 1400 coins. That's a max 14 GV runs daily. With a consistent drop rate of 6 feedstock per run, that gives us a minimum of almost one full week of gameplay just on the introduction of the game, considering the others few days spent to farm 478 in those 2 characters.


    Remember all of those numbers on the paragraph above is an optimal situation, in reality you will more likely, outside a double drop event, get around 1 feedstock per run which gives a number over 300 runs just for the armor feedstock. Way more actually because, like i mentioned before, the chance to break or decrease is not being accounted for. You can be lucky, you can be incredibly unlucky, those numbers will vary but for sure they will be higher than what you expect on the freaking INTRODUCTION of the game in my opinion.


    Worst of all, after you managed to get your 498 on your character, if you ever plain to play in another character it's the whole process again because the improved drop are limited 4 initial dungeons. Who thought that was a good idea? Why are you guys so against to people playing more than one character... The fact the old patch you could get improved on every dungeon and now you are locked into starter dungeon is insane.


    2 - Inconsistent information on patches notes and in game

    Could you at least make us the favor and be somewhat consistent on the information gives on patch notes and the real information in game?
    The patch notes gave us an item level required to access RM and AQ of 479 and base level 70 while in game the matchmaking system give us 471 and 479 respective and a base level of 69.


    Asides from the fact this makes me angry and can make people confused, the fact that matchmaking supposedly let you queue as a 69 character but the entrance portals of RM and AQ themselves only let 70 character enter is strange. I didn't feel like getting a character 69 with the required item level to test it but some people told me you could in fact matchmaking for them.


    Notice, the official discord posted a warning telling people under 70 to in fact not queue for RM because the portal that spawns for last boss is a level 70 portal only, just like the entrance dungeon portal. This is straight up ridiculous...


    3 - Disparity on dungeons level

    I'm not gonna complain about the slow motion AQ GV RM since now they are introduction dungeons and are supposed to be easy as hell (even though it makes me cringe with that speed).


    The real problem, the dungeon distribution is horrible, not only in item level by the way. You have pay ress on both CTNM and DA but not on FAUW and CSNM. Why? Seriously why??? If you are gonna put all of them on the same item level either give all of them pay ress or not. Half of the dungeons being able to *cough* pay to complete *cough* makes people only susceptible to do those...


    Also, do you seriously consider all of those 4 dungeons at the same level? I guess CSNM with the nerf makes it even more brain dead and at the same level of DA but FAUW is still pretty hard for new players.


    In general, you are taking players coming from a slow motion 3 easy dungeons and throwing them into 4 dungeons that require more attention and knowledge. Problem is that nobody will run FAUW and maybe they won't like CSNM even nerfed, why? Because they can't pay to ress and i don't know if people noticed (i didn't until a guild member point it out) but you can't buy ress scroll anymore. Either your healer always die with their auto ress on or you are gonna wipe because most won't have the scroll. People are not trained at all to carry them or healers are not trained to ress.


    Not only satisfied with that, the jump from 498 to 501 is hell. Also, can you guys stop making the "farm this one dungeon non stop" meta already? Who honestly cares for CSNM FAUW or DA when you are gonna need to spam CTNM to get to 501. As always, we have one dungeon spammed and others basically dead...


    Now for the jump in difficulty, you make people farm a dungeon that is not that hard and you can die how much you want because of pay ress to get to 501. The problem? I will bet people will go into a 501 dungeon, die and ask "where are my pay ress?". I saw that several times even on lfg parties... Will people even do anything other than CTHM? CSHM was a dead dungeon before, i don't see the nerfing helping honestly... Bahaar was always a nightmare for people to learn and the random change on wrath, in my opinion, will make a lot of people give up on it, even those who did Bahaar before. RMHM well... that was a freaking notorious dungeon for wipes and everything, people would barely run it...


    Where in old patches we would have the somewhat normal distribution of dungeons per item level like now we have something strange:

    Old - Introduction dungeons (pay ress 50) >>> easy dungeon (pay ress 250) >>> mid dungeons >>> hard&endgame dungeons

    Now - Introduction dungeons (pay ress 250) >>> easy&mid (half pay ress 250 other half no ress) >>> hard&endgame dungeons


    Also, why unify the gold cost of pay ress? It only causes new players have zero gold on the first dungeon they have access, i have seen a lot of them complaining about gold. People won't stop paying just because the price is higher, at this point i think the community don't even know healers can ress, not even the healers themselves...


    4 - The old leveling problem aka BHS do you hate new players so much?

    Why the normal leveling is still a 3 man dungeon queue? Do you really think there is always enough players starting the game or leveling alts to complete a 3 man dungeon at any point or time out of a leveling event? Why didn't you guys make the solo elin quest that was present on leveling events a permanent thing? You are torturing anyone who even shows a random interest in a dying game, people most of the time quit before they even hit 65, that's just sad.


    Even hitting 65 and doing the whole quest line asides exodor gives you around 50% on level 67 but that's it. After that you do GV, i guess with the horrible feedstock farm present the leveling won't even be noticed but still. GV gives a total of 195726400 exp with vanguard included while at the old patch a MC would give you 3 potions of 250000000 each. Leveling isn't the point of tera from years now, why u nerfed the cute fast queue MC. That's almost 4 times lower exp and you could bank those potions. The only advantage GV has is when using exp potions but those are not always given to players unless it's a leveling event and even with them a run of GV gives less than the potions of MC if you don't have TC (since exp potion without TC is 300%).


    5 - No real incentive to do anything asides the new dungeon nor any merit in doing it

    This is more of a personal opinion but i think it's just stupid that you can fully buy the end game gear on shop and no need whatsoever to run anything for it. There is no merit of doing the endgame dungeons unless you need to farm it and even then, you are probably gonna farm the new dungeon NM and HM nonstop. I don't know, the game feels meaningless and void. While on heroic patch you needed to do bahaar for end game gear the old patches is just "swipe a credit card".

  • TLDR: The patch was made basically for those who were already bis last patch, one class main, whales. This is the worst patch for any casual, returning player or new player

  • Also, why unify the gold cost of pay ress? It only causes new players have zero gold on the first dungeon they have access, i have seen a lot of them complaining about gold. People won't stop paying just because the price is higher, at this point i think the community don't even know healers can ress, not even the healers themselves...

    I once entered a GV and told my party "I can res you, don't waste gold"... But they PAYED anyway! I felt like an idiot and didn't do that again. But your post made me realize I shouldn't have given up so easily... I'll try with another party... Maybe if more healers did this, people would actually remember that healers can res. v_v


    Personally, I hate that they added 99 payed res to nearly all dungeons... It made my role (healer) from the most important party member to the most useless one. In theory, you could just run any dungeon without a healer and pay your way through. The previous system, when you had about 20(?) self-res on your first 10 runs made more sense, it was actually a great system. (But I would expand it to first 20 runs, or better, tweak the number based on every dungeon's difficulty.)


    Btw, I agree with your post, just wanted to add a "fun fact".

  • funnily..i kinda appreciate the pay ress (i haven't reach the highest level of dungeon yet..so consider me as a newbie priest). at least from playing the gv , and RM (easy ) version, i found out that i also die a lot , and the priest self resurrect skill is not adequate at times . this is also due to the reason sometimes the party i manage to get in do not have tanker , so the boss can be jumping around madly at times. (making it difficult to ress).


    *the pay ress could be the reason they are anticipating that party cannot get healer .


    as for the rest of the point, Mimi522 might have valid point.


    *currently only played RM,GV and AQ since patch 102. so this is my point of view at this time.

  • Are you free matching for them? I'm awake you can take sometimes more than 20minutes for a dungeon. Or are you finding the non traditionally tanks like warrior and berserker? People sometimes only consider lancers and brawlers tanks.


    In my honestly opinion GV is a terrible dungeon to be put as first. If done correctly, as in the party evade all attacks, the boss barely jumps but since it's the first dungeon and you expect a lot of players to be either new or face tank the attacks you suddenly have a leaping frog. Second boss is a terrible boss for a new healer because of the heal check mechanic.


    Overall, not a good dungeon to start with if compared to the old ones. I do appreciate the perspective of a new player. I don't personally believe that the ress it's for no healing parties since the only way you can find them would be free matching and i'm not sure it actually finds without heal. Without tank i know it can.


    The dungeons choices is too poor in this patch and like i said, super unbalanced in level jumps, you will most likely have a hard time on the next one. The pay ress is to help people learn at max, medium to hard dungeons you need the traditional roles in party or else you wipe even with ress.


    Really old times, like years ago, we used to have 5 pay ress for when you were rookie on the dungeon, meaning didn't complete the dungeon more than 5 times at that time. So for old players the pay ress system now is frustrating XD

    Edited once, last by MImi522 ().

  • funnily..i kinda appreciate the pay ress

    I also think the pay res is great when you are learning the dungeon. However having 99 res for your 100th run seems excessive to me... I would limit the number of resses and/or runs.


    Second boss is a terrible boss for a new healer because of the heal check mechanic

    I'm a kinda-veteran mystic with +12 kaia and I can barely outheal that mechanic (sometimes a few people die on that mech). So I'm kinda horrified on behalf of new players who are trying to learn to play a healer in that dungeon. Is it even possible to outheal it with +0 kaia?

    Really old times, like years ago, we used to have 5 pay ress for when you were rookie on the dungeon, meaning didn't complete the dungeon more than 5 times at that time. So for old players the pay ress system now is frustrating XD

    When I played in 2019, I think it was 5-20 res for your first 10 runs... I think you had more res in easier dungeons and less in harder ones (which didn't make sense to me). Do I remember it wrong?

    Having unlimited res makes it easier to learn dungeons now but I still kinda miss being a crucial party member.

  • I'm a kinda-veteran mystic with +12 kaia and I can barely outheal that mechanic (sometimes a few people die on that mech). So I'm kinda horrified on behalf of new players who are trying to learn to play a healer in that dungeon. Is it even possible to outheal it with +0 kaia?

    Yes, it is. I did it with both a new leveled mystic and priest. Priest is the easiest to do because just a kaia and a holy burst normally is enough. Mystic you need protection + the thrall of life and probably a boomerang and a healing mote for yourself. If boss does straight up after the debuff mech, which is pretty much always, depending on people life they die yeah. Warding totem helps but still meh. Priest is so much easier XD

    When I played in 2019, I think it was 5-20 res for your first 10 runs... I think you had more res in easier dungeons and less in harder ones (which didn't make sense to me). Do I remember it wrong?

    Yeah i'm talking waaaaaaay before 2019. From launch times, you had 5 ress for an entire dungeon and only 5 runs for skilled. They changed the skilled after and added more ress along the years.

  • Thank you for sharing this post with us, I really hope that someone reads that feedback and passes it on to devs....

    I totally agree with everything mentioned above - you summed up it really well.

    There's another point I want to add - hopefully I'm not alone on this - but it became really really hard to make money even if you are geared enough to run endgame content. I'm one of those lucky people who somehow managed to get 501 item level in double drop event (it was hell of a grind) and have experience and knowledge to run Bahaar or RMHM.

    However those dungeons are extremely tough and require a very knowledgeable party. Esp in RMHM - one mistake can ruin the run very easily.

    But drop rates (no matter if it's dd event or not) are horrible. You can't get anything valuable you can sell, really. In previous patch you could get money from selling stones you farmed, accesorries - now all these things after Timescape and updated dungeones like FAUW cost very little.

    And still for each good run (esp hard modes) you need to use fancy food, beer etc. Considering how many wipes there are in HM, not elleon marks can cover that much.

    You don't get anything except of enhancement resources from CTNM which you have to farm daily A LOT.

    Basically gold just slips away, everything is wasted on consumables and enhancement which becomes very very pricey when you get to +5 or higher.

    Imo economy system was way more friendlier in previous patch than it is now.

  • I totally agree with you, i noticed that gold wise the vanguards are a joke and items now are not worth that much on end game dungeons. The elleon marks is another stupid change and thankfully someone already made a post about it too. Let's hope we get a more balanced change this time.