Tera Classic Server Poll and Discussion (Consolidated)

    I provided evidence of which content Classic Tera players enjoyed. Most are expressing their love for "VM1" and "2012-2013" content on reddit, on the polling, and in Classic Tera threads such as this one.


    All you've done with your unnecessarily long post is provided data about the number of Tera accounts created since the beginning of Tera's existence, and are somehow, in your head, equating the continuation of account creation to 2014-2015 Tera content being preferred over 2012-2013 content?
    What the hell?
    Yeah of course Tera continued to have accounts created.. wow.. good one.

    When are you going to show evidence that 2014-2015 content is more well-liked than 2012-2013 content?


    Still waiting.


    Also nice job making excuses for being a hypocrite by saying all I can bring is ad hominems, while then attacking my character saying I have "ginophobia and xenophobia." Haha

    You legitimately are a hypocrite though. You won't provide evidence for your claims that 2014-2015 Tera content was more liked than 2012-2013 content.

    Quote from Sweet.Shiro.Neko

    There is a reason why a bussiness takes a direction or NEVER turns their eye on a road they previously step.

    Oh really. Is that why Oldschool Runescape, and World of Warcraft Classic exist and are extremely popular?

    Oh yes you're such a savvy business man...

    The rest of your post is just retarded, asking me why I don't personally provide a Classic server yet again, making inaccurate assumptions about me, and talking about console version of Tera for some weird reason.


    Where is your brain, son? Where did it go? I really want to know.

    Still you havent provided offical sources to back up your claims and keep your points with only ad hominems. Thats what your brains only are worth.


    And you still made a quote from me cutting what I wrote there only to use it on your best interests. I will paste here the complete text you didnt care to put because put you in evidence how baised person you are and how you try to manipulate things:


    Quote

    "There is a reason why a bussiness takes a direction or NEVER turns their eye on a road they previously step. Its because their metrics tell them its not worth, pretty much the reason they didnt consider a Vanilla version of TERA when they brought a "Classic Server" first time and instead they chose a later version of the game. For that same reason TERA for Console didnt even bothered to step into TERA Vanilla from PC their data already prove them enought that your claims are out of question and dont need to be given even a thought."

    If you cant understand this then pretty much explain why you cant understand why other games classic servers are a thing while TERA isnt. While for other games their metrics about their games in their first year tells them that can be a succesful idea for TERA this is not the case. If their metrics would tell that then you would be enjoying a vanilla server since 2019 when they tried their first attemp but their metrics told them vanilla TERA is not worth the risk and better tried a temporary "classic" server based on a later patch. They did the same thing on J-TERA and all decisions a company makes usually are based on metrics that you probably cant understand because all your points are based on hunches not reasons nor facts.

    :elin31:

    Quote from Sweet.Shiro.Neko

    Still you havent provided offical sources to back up your claims and keep your points with only ad hominems. Thats what your brains only are worth.

    You posted unofficial data yourself from the mmo population website which gets its numbers from reddit, and then you say reddit is an unreliable source.

    Not that this data proves that 2014-2015 content was well-liked compared to 2012-2013 content because it only goes as far back as 2016, so what was even the point in posting that?
    Oh right your missing brain.


    The only official data you did provide showed that in 2013, the total accounts created since the beginning of Tera was over 1.5 million, and in 2017, the total accounts created since the beginning of Tera rose to 6.6 million.
    Still not proving anything in regards to 2014-2015 content being more liked than 2012-2013 content.
    Oh right your brain.


    *EDIT* aaand you're bringing up the temporary classic server gameforge half-assed again as an argument for why a permanent classic server wouldn't have interest or be successful.
    I think that about sums up your intelligence on the matter.


    EDIT2**
    Hint hint: this is the part where you're supposed to say "LOL YOU JUST GOT TROOOLLLED! I WAS ONLY PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED!"

    Quote from distilled1

    You posted unofficial data yourself from the mmo population website which gets its numbers from reddit, and then you say reddit is an unreliable source.

    Not that this data proves that 2014-2015 content was well-liked compared to 2012-2013 content because it only goes as far back as 2016, so what was even the point in posting that?
    Oh right your missing brain.


    The only official data you did provide showed that in 2013, the total accounts created since the beginning of Tera was over 1.5 million, and in 2017, the total accounts created since the beginning of Tera rose to 6.6 million.
    Still not proving anything in regards to 2014-2015 content being more liked than 2012-2013 content.
    Oh right your brain.

    Well, you pretty much didnt read or saw the other official sources:


    1.- April 2013 - 1.5 million accounts created from official source

    2.- April 2014 - 3.0 million accounts created from official source

    3.- June 2015 - 4.5 million accounts created from official source

    4.- May 2017 - 6.6 million accounts created from official source

    5.- April 2018 - 6.6 million accounts created advertising from EME and thus an official source http://www.oneprstudio.com/en-…-sixth-anniversary-on-pc/


    This is part of the data a company will look while trying to take a decision. This with other data that we dont get on our hands like average accounts on-line per day, total money spend from them in a time period. etc...


    If you go to BHS and tell them that TERA 2012 was an huge success and you show them your reddit links they probably laught at your face, not only them but any serious bussiness will make fun of you when you show them 3 links with discussions that amounts less people than fingers a person have.

    :elin31:

    1) You didn't put that link in your previous post so how would I have "not read or saw the other official sources" when you didn't post this link.
    2) That link doesn't provide the information you've put in that post. Cool story.

    3) You're still talking about account numbers instead of the admiration of 2014-2015 content vs 2012-2013 content.


    We already know there is interest in Classic Tera. It's obvious whether Blue Hole Studios realizes it or not. I'm NOT trying to discuss whether or not Blue Hole Studios recognizes the right direction for Tera right now. It's obvious that they don't with their history of running Tera into the ground for years.


    What is going on in your head, bro?


    EDIT**
    Also are you trying to glorify 2014 and 2015 content by implying that in 2014, 3 million new accounts were created, and in 2015 4.5 million new accounts were created. Because that's not even what the official information says.
    The official information is reporting the total accounts created from the beginning of Tera.


    So it's actually 1.5 total accounts created from 2012-2013.

    Another 1.5 new accounts in 2014

    Another 1.5 new accounts in 2015.

    Yeah, trying to put things straight. I am good with any version they bring I hope you get that. I only want to provide info about some data that they as a company will look before taking a desicion.


    As I told you before, if their own metrics would have been satisfactory about TERA on 2012 or 2013 then its weird they went for a 2015 version of the game in their first classic server attempt.


    We as players will chose the game version we are more comfortable with but every head is a whole diferent world, while metrics are always the same and bussiness are ruled by them.


    I am certain, and I say this as a hunch, they think the most liked TERA version is between TERA: Rising and TERA Fate of Arun second big patch. How we can convince them otherwise? Sadly we cant, not at least with polls with that low player base participation, not with a forum thread that have almots 14 pages but with less than a hundred of users active on it. For them to realize there could be a better option than 3rd or 4th TERA Aniversary versions would be something massive from the people and we cant say the numbers that will be enought for them to consider this as "a bussiness". Not at least with this few people taking part in the topic or in that poll.


    ------


    Short answer: We need more convincing things than a forum post with less than a hundred users asking for a classic server and in my opinion that poll requires more backup from the comunity interested in a classic server. A second poll may be needed and one that gets more back up from the comunity. The current one has few flaws that could be polished.


    Edit:


    Quote

    EDIT**

    Also are you trying to glorify 2014 and 2015 content by implying that in 2014, 3 million new accounts were created, and in 2015 4.5 million new accounts were created. Because that's not even what the official information says.

    I never said NEW accounts. You understand what you want to understand but I am glad you read or watched the videos at least that is a sign that they were not trown there without any meaning.


    And yeah, its likely like that, the game had an steady growth that got slower in 2016-2017 and froze between 2017-2018. Try to understand that is data from NA region too.

    I think a big factor in why you'd want another poll done is because you're salty and unable to accept the fact that more people legitimately voted for the 60 patch content than they did for the 65 patch content.

    As Tadeshi said, there was likely at least 500 legitimate votes among the 900 or whatever.
    I'd say it was closer to 700 legitimate votes personally.


    Sure bigger poll numbers would have been nice but good luck trying to find old Tera players and convincing them to vote on a Tera poll when they've stopped giving a crap about Tera years ago for good reason.


    As has been said many times already, all we can do is hope that BHS or some other gaming publisher introduces a Classic Tera server. God knows Gameforge won't do it.

    1.- No, I dont care if we get a Vanilla level 58 version or later. I am fine if we can get a version of TERA with Island of Dawn old gearing system and other stuff that I am not sure if you like them or not, each one has their preferences.


    2.- If you look at all data provided in that poll probably something between 500 and 600 were legit. Thats it up to each one to believe what they like better.


    3.- This is another big issue at hand, a classic server will need proper marketing and the current publisher doesnt bother to make a proper marketing for the retail version. Even EME stopped properly marketing the game around 2017, It wouldnt surprise me if GameForge hasnt make a proper marketing on the game all those years either.


    4.- In the end is not a decision from GameForge but from BHS side. It has been like that since some years now. And we can only rely on people who knows korean to pass on our feedback to BHS. So far it looks like there were a lot of changes inside BHS team and now could be the best time to push petitions. This is why another survey could be mandatory. One that reach more people.


    Edit:


    Zdzisiu


    Quote

    Number of accounts means very little. People installing game and then unistall. So marketing working - but not neccesery quality of game. The crucial data, we do not have access are revenue and retention. And this is not even transferable between P2P and F2P payment models. Only obvious fact is the game must keep much better quality to keep retention in P2P model.


    One more thing I forgot to mention one of the oldest EME employees told us that at most 2% of the total "accounts created" reach end-game while the rest leaves between, while the biggest amount of them stop playing around level 20. This was told from his experience in the game since launch in 2012.


    Meaning those 1.5 million acount created each year brought only aroud 30k players who meet end game on 2012 and +30k on 2013 only in NA version. A good question would be how to reach them and get their interest back in a classic server. I know several players from p2p version but that amount a handful of players in NA and they already told me they wont comeback to the game any more. I could ask them again but I doubt they will change their minds.

    Number of accounts means very little. People installing game and then unistall. So marketing working - but not neccesery quality of game. The crucial data, we do not have access are revenue and retention. And this is not even transferable between P2P and F2P payment models. Only obvious fact is the game must keep much better quality to keep retention in P2P model.

    I just realized that I've made a big mistake for the past several posts I made.
    I've been typing out "2012-2013 content" and "2014-2015 content" when I actually meant "2012&2013 content" and "2014&2015 content".
    I am sorry for any confusion.


    I personally vouch for 2012&2013 content, and believe that most Classic Tera fans preferred it over 2014 and 2015 content (especially over December 2014 which was the level 65 patch. Most of 2014 aside from December wasn't too terrible. It was still more or less the same game with a few new dungeons and reapers).


    Also now that I'm looking more closely at the data Sweet.Shiro.Neko provided, it does indicate what I've been trying to say. How players still stuck around and continued creating accounts through most of 2014, encouraging their friends to play, gaining Tera more popularity, etc. Then players beginning their dissatisfaction with the introduction of the level 65 patch in December 2014.


    1) After their first year (from 2012 to 2013), NA Tera had over 1.5 million accounts created. (Evidently, people liked the 2012 content)

    2) After their second year (from 2013 to 2014), NA Tera had another 1.5 million accounts created. (Evidently, people liked the 2013 content)

    3) After their third year (from 2014 to 2015), NA Tera had another 1.5 million accounts created. (Evidently, people liked the majority of the 2014 content).

    4) After another TWO years (from 2015 to 2017), NA Tera only had another 2.1 million accounts created, averaging at only 1.05 million new accounts for the years 2015 and 2016. (Evidently, people began disliking the content they were seeing in the years 2015 and 2016).

    The 65 patch came in DECEMBER 2014 (almost 2015). Evidently, people didn't like it, and less accounts were created because of it.


    So even the official numbers correlate with the anecdotal proof that many Classic Tera fans show preference for level 60 content (2012, 2013, and most of 2014) vs the level 65 content (December 2014, 2015, 2016).

    Quote from distilled1

    I personally vouch for 2012&2013 content, and believe that most Classic Tera fans preferred it over 2014 and 2015 content (especially over December 2014 which was the level 65 patch. Most of 2014 aside from December wasn't too terrible. It was still more or less the same game with a few new dungeons and reapers).

    Well... I prefer 2011 content. And I think release plan for EU and NA was wrong. The game would be in much better shape if we could start from full Kelsaik patch (with BG that was cut on release) and after 8-12 months update to full Shandra Manaya. This way we could have from release tons of content for over 1,5 year. And this could give devs time for another big patch, much better designed than this 2014 content.

    distilled1 you forgot to add the fact that the last server we got in NA was on Jun 2016. Meaning the "active player base" kept growing even after that. There is a big diference between "new" player and current active players. Having new blood joining a game will help to fill the ranks when an active player take a break from the game. The game was healthy in that aspect even on 2015. However that is not the case for 2016 where we had the SECOND server merge because there were things that triggered a massive player base drop like they stopped the marketing strategy, they removed Island of Dawn, They added once again a highly broken class, the new starting area was terrible, Forsaken Island Hard patch got delayed and brought a big uproar in the comuniyty. The first server merge was on 2012 we passed from 11 servers to 3 servers then the game kept growing in activity even on 2015 as we need a 7th server to be created.


    Another thing to take into account was the post I edited to quote and answer Zdzisiu, where I point that one of the oldest EME employee told us in one of his twitch streams about how many players accounts reach end game and even how many of those accounts spend at least once in the game.


    What I can see here is that GameForge never had any kind of transparency and/or comunication with EU comunity >.> - I shared official info from NA servers, could you live up on your word and offer official info about EU servers? or will you continue with your ad hominems + baised ideas.


    I guess you only take what you want to make up your thoughts and not the facts as they are.

    No we're actually pretty much saying the same things now, only I'm being more realistic.
    We're agreed that players stuck around in 2015, but by 2016 and 2017 the numbers were dropping.
    Only difference between us really is that you're directly relating the 2016 and 2017 numbers with the 2016 and 2017 content, when you should be relating numbers to past content, because it takes time for players to hold on, waiting and hoping for improved content like the content they had in the past, then finally moving on.

    For whatever reason, you're not taking this holding on time-frame into account.


    It takes time for a game's reputation to change for better or for worse (in Tera's 2015 content's case, WORSE), and affect player numbers and further account creations. It's not instant.


    Now I don't see you providing proof of the servers merging from 11 to 3 in 2012, but let's just say it's true.

    This isn't indicative that 2012's content was bad. It's indicative that most North Americans did not want to pay money to play Tera back in 2012 before it went free to play, because they had no way of testing whether it would be a game they liked or not, and didn't want to take that chance. It also didn't have time to spread through word of mouth yet because 2012 was the year when the game released in North America.


    You really really need to start separating Tera's content from its payment models.

    Quote from distilled1

    Now I don't see you providing proof of the servers merging from 11 to 3 in 2012, but let's just say it's true.

    This isn't indicative that 2012's content was bad. It's indicative that most North Americans did not want to pay money to play Tera back in 2012 before it went free to play, because they had no way of testing whether it would be a game they liked or not, and didn't want to take that chance. It also didn't have time to spread through word of mouth yet because 2012 was the year when the game released in North America.


    You really really need to start separating Tera's content from its payment models.

    Friend, you really are misinformed or you really never cared to go out from your bubble at all. With this I am sure you never put an effort to even make a search on the web. Sadly as EME is no more their official webpage hosting their news was already shutdown but that doesnt make articles about it over there internet disapear like:


    https://www.gameinformer.com/b…servers-being-merged.aspx

    or

    https://www.gamesradar.com/ter…erging-remaining-servers/

    or

    https://www.engadget.com/2012-…own-to-three-servers.html


    and there are even more articles of it over the internet and you saying you find nothing only makes you look dumb.


    I even found a forum post from gameforge about EU merge when shrunk to 4 servers in 2012 too you can see it here: Server merge downtime, 20.11.2012


    Now, I am pretty sure that I am arguing with someone that has almost no info and not willingly to look for it about the matter at hand. And once again you havent shared anything that is not baised on "what you feel or what your friends feel" backing up what you said.


    I am not separating TERA from their paying models because some people in this thread said that a Vanilla version with p2p model should be the way to go for the Classic server. This the whole reason I am providing info about all TERA past. If paying models werent addressed in this thread then I wouldnt dared to brought this as a f2p Vanilla TERA could have more chances to live up to the expectations on healthy player base and growth.


    You will be surprised who was the one who wrote this text:

    Quote

    as far as how it will make GameForge money, make the game subscription based like Tera was originally.

    Why should people get entertainment for free anyways?

    People should pay for their entertainment, and I'm more than willing to. It beats the hell out of having a "free to play" game that ends up costing you an arm and a leg in micro-transactions just to be competitive.

    You have problems, Sweet.Shiro.Neko.

    I wasn't actually doubting that those server merges happened. You didn't need to provide proof because I was clearly assuming you were telling the truth. I was bugging about the proof because you continuously ask me to provide proof for every little thing I say so I was just giving you the same treatment as a joke.


    Quote from Sweet.Shiro.Neko

    once again you havent shared anything that is not baised on "what you feel or what your friends feel" backing up what you said.

    The hundreds of people who voted on the polling here, and who post things on reddit and the forums are not "what I feel or what my friends feel".
    Are you that butthurt about the polling results that you have to make stuff up in your head like "these 900+ votes are just the opinions of a handful of people who are all friends"?

    Seriously, lol what is your problem? You can't accept that people preferred 2012 and 2013 content? Is that it?

    Yeah just keep dismissing the valid opinions of hundreds of players. Keep plugging your ears when data results in things you don't happen to like. What a child.


    Quote from Sweet.Shiro.Neko

    I am not separating TERA from their paying models because some people in this thread said that a Vanilla version with p2p model should be the way to go for the Classic server.

    So because some people expressed their preference for a pay to play payment model, YES INCLUDING ME, you're tying the potential success of a Classic Tera server with 2012&2013 content to the unsuccessful payment models Tera had in 2012-2013?

    Why?

    This is what I'm trying to say. You're not making any sense. You need to separate the content of those years from those years' unsuccessful pay to play payment model, so you can understand what content would actually make a successful Classic Tera server. Your unwillingness to do so makes you look like a person who is desperately looking for excuses to discredit 2012&2013 content.
    Again, why so butthurt about the fact that 2012&2013 had more favored content?


    If you bothered to read more posts in this thread you'd know that, although I prefer pay to play payment models for MMORPGs, I've admitted that I'd be happy with a free-to-play payment model as long as pay-to-win things were kept out of the cash shops, and there were only things such as cosmetic items/mounts/etc which would make gameforge enough money to sustain their servers.


    If you're that afraid of a Tera Classic server repeating mistakes of Vanilla Tera's past, well don't be because when Tera was new to NA audiences in 2012, no one knew anything about how great the game was including the amazing combat. Now they do, so that alone changes whether or not people would be willing to pay to play a Classic Tera. So yes, your logic is flawed. Even if that was unsuccessful still, or if a gaming publisher didn't want to risk a pay to play model, they can switch to, or use a free-to-play model because that has a history of working with 2012-2013 content.


    Seriously how are you this dense that I have to explain all this stuff to you. You're only convincing me that you're a troll because you keep going in loops, repeating the same flawed logic over and over.

    Ever since you joined this thread all your posts have been ad hominems + baised arguments + unreliable data.


    1. The pool you claim as a proof had no anti robot checks and no other wall to ensure us at least the minimum to think people could have manipulated it. You could have voted there as much times as you wanted. You didnt need a mail check, there was not a machine check, there was not an ip check, there was nothing of the sorts. You cant claim this as a reliable source if anything is a flawed source of data.


    2. You provided 3 reddit post that didnt amount even a hundred post and even less people participating on it. One more time, you are proving here you are living in a made up world that only suits your standars even if they are a lie.


    3. You said "you cant accept people preffered 20212 and 2013 content?" and I told you again thats not what I am arguing. Ever since the beggining my posts have been tied about 2 things: a) What could be the best patch to run the classic server and b) What should be the bussiness model for it. At least the data I have shown makes sense why a publisher will favor patches after TERA Rising rather than Vanilla while you cant bring anything but ad hominems, baised arguments and unreliable data.


    4. Yes, the bussiness model of the classic server will have an huge impact regardless of built they chose. This is actually 1 of the 3 most important things when making the decision. The other will be the patch build obviously and the game progression system, at least from my perspective.


    5. Active player base kept growing after it went into f2p. At least from NA is went from 3 servers up to 7 and the last server added was on Jun 2015. This provided us that people up to this point continue to favor TERA content, this is a fact and you dont have any way to show metrics that can say otherwise. You keep saying that people kept playing from 2012 up to late 2015 or earlier 2016 but they got feed up with things that piled up, something that has some true but you cant prove it. However in bussiness if you ever have managed one you can see that a decision can show their impacts in the short term but you are so focused without any proof that the decisions only had impact in the long term. I already told you what happened in NA servers in the end of 2015 around Forsaken Island Hard Mode with desicions made by the management that created a big uproar in their forums followed by the removal of Island of Dawn as starting point around November 2015. If we add that TERA didnt had proper marketing for NA after Steam release you can see how their decisions made impact in the short term and it went even worse when the comunity got to know about the removal of Alliance and Crusades from the game in 2016, that we knew 3 months or more before hand because it was announced on K-TERA and we had people showing their patch notes in EME forums. These were the main factors who lead a big lose of players and a drop in new players influx, ended in the server merges from 7 to 3 in September 2016. There is a lot of logic into that but you are trying so hard with nothing to back you up that all of this was not because their decisions in the same patch but rather you keep trying to discredit the success of 2015 with your own baised ideas. There is something called schizophrenia and your behaviour is pretty much what it describes it "a long-term mental disorder of a type involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behavior, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings, withdrawal from reality and personal relationships into fantasy and delusion, and a sense of mental fragmentation."


    6. In one of your past post you touched something that in my perception holds a lot of truth - "People should pay for their entertainment, and I'm more than willing to. It beats the hell out of having a "free to play" game that ends up costing you an arm and a leg in micro-transactions just to be competitive." - This is pretty much the mix of a bussiness model and the game progression model. They tied both and this is one of the biggest issues with the game, once again in my perception. A lot of people frustrated not only now but over the patches have some similar words. this is a constant complain from the active player base and from retired players aswell, however it looks like this bussiness model works better for them even if they keep losing players left and right because if you or I are not willingly to pay for game progression it looks like there are enought players willingly to spend thousands first day a new gear is released only to remain competitive. I could say they are addicted, that they dont like the game but they feel pushed to spend the money to remain competitive, that they are not happy but I dont have means to prove it so for a bussiness stand point if they keep whaling then the bussiness model is working we cant fight back against this if we cant actually provide reliable data to them and proof that could lead them to take a diferent model bussiness.


    7. You continue in every sentence from your post always using ad hominems, baised logic arguments and unreliable data. This keeps in a loop because this way of you to try to argue and refute others stand points.

    :elin31:

    By the way we will not hear about any decision fast. First they need to fail this trash Elyon. After that they will looking in panic new source of revenue so maybe they will make some decision about classic Tera.

    Display Spoiler

    LOL You're insane if you think I'm reading your half-hour-long blog post. You're not that important and your opinions and logic are way too flawed for me to give a shit. Sorry kiddo, I just don't have time for bullshit.

    I'm guessing you're mostly still in denial about more people liking level 60 content than level 65 content. Keep making excuses for it so you can feel better for all I care.


    I did read the part you coloured purple though and had a good laugh at how insanely emotional you must have been writing all this. It's funny how hypocritical you are, claiming all I do is ad hominems then going on a rant about how you think I have schizophrenia.


    Stay salty and continue your denial for all I care. People don't agree with you and you don't matter.

    Quote from Zdzisiu

    By the way we will not hear about any decision fast. First they need to fail this trash Elyon. After that they will looking in panic new source of revenue so maybe they will make some decision about classic Tera.

    Just the fact that Elyon uses the Unreal Engine 3 already lights up red lights. Unreal engine 3 is so badly optimised for mmorpg's in my experience. games like Blade and Soul suffers from that engine to this day.