PvP Balancing Problem

i still say the pvp weapons should get all procs unlocked at level zero and only gain raw stats from leveling up...would massivly reduce how salty people who have spent the last 9+ months wasting millions off gold to sit forever at +6 would feel

I agree on this. I managed to get my +15 PvE faster than my +9 PvP I am struggling with since a year or so :hehexd:

Also the annoying thing is that your HP melt as a tank under every dd, only because you are +6 and the dds are +9 and proc the effect insanely fast.

Looking forward this aswell in EU: https://twitter.com/TERAonline/status/1261008441952350210

FWC > SH

Can we also talk about the interaction of skills with the additional effects,

and even more, how we should actually balance some Classes?

One extremely good example is Beserker Class and its skills.

Cyclone: Remove Stagger/CC/Pulls etc. Similar to how brawler punch>punch>punch>counter works.

The way cyclone is now, its stagger is able to lock everyone in an aoe over a period longer than most stuns and literally one-shot most classes in that one skill.
I have 12ms as I live close to the server, and I cannot move out of cyclone when it catches me. It has happened in both equalized and non equalized instances. I do not use ping compensation or any modules.

Tenacity: remove ability to stagger, and stagger people out of iframes.

Well you ask for balance, something I have never seen in the game since I started playing it (around f2p release time).

Take into account whichever change is made has to work for duels, battlegrounds and civil unrest situations. Which may be very different scenarios.

It seems extremely difficult to achieve. To begin with pve and pvp damage should work separately, either that or equal the players hp to that of the bosses.

In no case should pve gear be better than pvp gear for pvp (and the other way around). If there is going to be a better gear through pve, then the full concept of pvp gear is pointless because it costs way too much for a mid tier set. Needless to say having to combine both for pvp is even worse.

The game already has too many stats distributed anywhere and everywhere. To balance pvp first of all you need to take into account:

-Level

We have "Unified gear" battlegrounds without level equalization, to begin with characters should get level 70 if we want a fair chance for all. However if you do so, progressing towards level up loses a bit of its meaning.

-Skill EP

You can not have a custom template for pvp and another for pve, this may inconvenience people who want to do both, resetting ep everytime you do a dungeon/battleground is beyond a joke.

-Glyphs

This one may be a bit unfair for players who don't get the chance to do the new apex quest for free glyphs. It's up to the player here to use this properly so this should be the only balanced one atm, still it can be bothersome for beginners adding some disparity.

-Skill Advancements

Same discussion as with level, they should be unlocked upon entering battlegrounds.

The big broken thing, as if having skills broken into skills, advancements, ep and glyphs was not annoying enough they are a huge gold and time sink which may discourage people from playing on alts and make a big difference between new(non p2w) and long time players, as if experience was not enough.

-Latency disparity

-Consumables

-Cheats

Some stuff we shouldn't mention on forum and report directly to support instead.

-And some other stuff I may be forgetting about right now such as skill (who spams spacebar faster and harder).

Then again some may want to consider that if you "equalize all" without effort then there is no point in progressing. However, take into account that in that case you're not favoring balance.

This may be an acceptable level of unbalance if it's up to the player to step up to the progression within a reasonable amount of time before the next patch.

If you made it this far then you can actually start talking about class and gear balance.

Nerfing everything seems ineffective as then you get to the same point where you have skills for basically nothing. If anything make the cooldowns longer so they actually have to be used wisely. At worst you can apply class specific buffs/debuffs upon entering battlegrounds/civil unrest same way as they are applied in pve instances.

Gear enchantment in general should always show the enchant rate for the gear to begin with. As for pvp they should either increase the success rate, nerf it but not make it downgrade or make regular (at least monthly) events for it. However giving everyone +9 for free wouldn't be much different than having unified gear battlegrounds.

Or have an actual real progression system exclusively through pvp.

Quote from balls

One extremely good example is Beserker Class and its skills.

Cyclone: Remove Stagger/CC/Pulls etc. Similar to how brawler punch>punch>punch>counter works.

The way cyclone is now, its stagger is able to lock everyone in an aoe over a period longer than most stuns and literally one-shot most classes in that one skill.
I have 12ms as I live close to the server, and I cannot move out of cyclone when it catches me. It has happened in both equalized and non equalized instances. I do not use ping compensation or any modules.

Tenacity: remove ability to stagger, and stagger people out of iframes.

As a berserker player many players can move out of my cyclone when it catches them, in both instances, not using anything here either, so I believe this one may be on your end. I can also escape from other berserkers' cyclones if I play properly.

Contrary to popular belief the cyclone reset is not one button press. For it to "one shot" it has to be buffed and upgraded conveniently, reseted at the right speed and the opponent has to cast nothing to get out of it. So it is pretty much counterable unless you either got latency issues or no idea as of how to, there's more than a way to escape alive. If anything you could argue about the damage but given what other classes have I wouldn't nerf.

Berserker should be reworked to be able to act as a tank in pvp too, same for warrior.

Removing what you ask would not be balance considering the huge CC other classes have in mass pvp and would just be nerfing berserker for no reason whatsoever. Moreover, you can argue about mocking shout being a separate skill once again, but you shouldn't remove it either for the same reason.

Quote from Flukey

i still say the pvp weapons should get all procs unlocked at level zero and only gain raw stats from leveling up...would massivly reduce how salty people who have spent the last 9+ months wasting millions off gold to sit forever at +6 would feel

I don't think those who wasted millions for it would be okay with that though, but who knows.

Quote from Nayru

I don't think those who wasted millions for it would be okay with that though, but who knows.

As someone whos wasted 35k purple plates and more gold than i'd like over the last 12 months to get to +8 and try to +9, 38! times, i wouldnt actually mind
some weeks i get my cu gold, and sit there clicking the same 3 buttons 100s of times to go from +6 too +6 damaged over the course off an hour

maybe im salty that the chances to get to +9 from +8 from my point off view seem to be below 3%

Following my opinion of ballancing pvp classes skills. Ofc out of my sight as an archer, cause i just play this class and did thousands of duels and battlegrounds in the past years. Maybe some of my suggestions are to hard or to low in the sight of other players. I just can compare what i recognized out of my experience the last months and the fact, that archer is currently on the end of the food line in outcome dmg, while receiving tons of dmg. This is why archer class get the only dmg buff in my suggestion. So my main focus on balancing is to remove the oneshot effect of nearly every class and make combat more skill based and should make every class at the same level in 1v1 after this changes.

For example archer main skill in combat is radiant arrow where i have to aim and deal round about 40k dmg while slayer or warrior dont realy need to aim and dealing with their main skills like 70-80k in a circle around them of 5-10meters additional to the fact, that they have an higher mobility to any other class.

Lancer: incoming and outcoming dmg is okay, remove the infinite or not decreasing resolve effect at incoming blocked dmg.

Brawler: Tank class, decrease outcoming dmg by 20%, increase cooldown of selfheal by 50%.

Priest: increase incoming dmg by 20%

Mystic: increase incoming dmg by 20%

Valkyrie: incoming dmg is okay, decrease outcoming dmg by at least 10%. Remove selfheal effect from skills

Reaper: incoming dmg is okay, outcoming dmg at some skills 30% to high.

Sorc: incoming and outcoming dmg is okay, no need to change anything

Berserc: incoming and outcoming dmg is okay, no need to change anything

Archer: increase outcoming dmg by 10% and decrease incoming dmg by 10%, remove resolve and turn back to 1 dodge system. Remove dodge of foreign death

Warrior: incoming dmg is okay, decrease outcoming dmg of several main skills about 30%: remove non stagger effect of awakening and change instand stun effect of backsteb to current slayer backsteb.

Slayer: incoming dmg is okay, decrease outcoming dmg of several main skills by 30%. Remove the non stagger effect and the invulnerable effect of tenacity.

Ninja: incoming dmg is okay, decrease outcoming dmg by 10%

Ofc now some kids will cry cause i removed their easy to play skills and their nuclearbomb dmg, cause they are now forced to play smart and skilled.

But idc, you guys need to learn how to play and win without rolling the head on the keyboard while killing everyone.

Quote from Buschfunker

For example archer main skill in combat is radiant arrow where i have to aim and deal round about 40k dmg while slayer or warrior dont realy need to aim and dealing with their main skills like 70-80k in a circle around them of 5-10meters additional to the fact, that they have an higher mobility to any other class.

Well it's not comparable tbh but backstab can fail if not aimed properly.

However slayer or warrior are melee classes, which exposes them to damage in close combat, they have to rely on dodge/block/pressure, while archer has the advantage of distance to keep safety. If anything, indeed they have crazy mobility for melees.

Imagine dealing the same damage in a scenario where you're unreachable like sorc, this has to come at a risk/penalty/cost, in sorc's case it's a "paper defense". Also some archer traps have the advantage of invisibility, so opponents have to pay more attention.

Maybe the guaranteed back crit skill could be reworked to give that extra damage.

As for slayer I think the non stagger part should stay, though I'm not sure for how long a slayer's tenacity lasts and its cd.

I'd give valk increased cooldown rather than skill removal for self heal.

Well Yeah slayers and warrior are meelee and ofc they should Deal more dmg then archer cause they need to go close combat. In my example archer dmg would raise up from 40k to 44k and slayer dmg would decrease from 80k to 56k.

I dont think slayer needs any damage nerf in pvp, imo it should even be higher by some 10% or so. Decreasing its damage would render the class useless. The whole point of slayer class is to move fast on battlefield and take down squishy classes. Archer and slayer should never be compared when it comes to pvp damage.

Its not even about coming on this thread and complain cos someone suggested your main class should get a nerf. I dont main slayer, my main are valk and archer but i play all classes other than mystic and priest. His suggestions are very biased and his post is very childish at the end.

He complains on war and slayer cos he PERSONALLY has problem with them, but guess what slayer and war has to fight other classes as well not just archers. Nerfing slayers damage to the ground but leaving for example reaper/zerk as it is? Right...

Slayer is imo one of the few classes that actually need a buff not a nerf. Slayer doesnt have infinite iframe like war or archer, or range like archer/sorc, or an ability to block like lancer, zerk, brawler or a heavy armor or any group/party utility skill none of that. Its a squishy mele range class with no utility almost at all, and you want to take away their burst damage? Might as well delete the class instead.

Ok we all have our own experience/opinion and how we see overall class balance but what he wrote at the end to dismiss anyone who has different opinion than him as a * crying kid who dont know how to play* while in fact he is the one who based his suggestions to fit his own agenda.

Quote from Buschfunker

Ofc now some kids will cry cause i removed their easy to play skills and their nuclearbomb dmg, cause they are now forced to play smart and skilled.

But idc, you guys need to learn how to play and win without rolling the head on the keyboard while killing everyone.

i do agree with you tobtheking2, pvp is in a very bad spot right now and some overall/general changes are needed.

Quote from medolo5

Its not even about coming on this thread and complain cos someone suggested your main class should get a nerf. I dont main slayer, my main are valk and archer but i play all classes other than mystic and priest. His suggestions are very biased and his post is very childish at the end.

He complains on war and slayer cos he PERSONALLY has problem with them, but guess what slayer and war has to fight other classes as well not just archers. Nerfing slayers damage to the ground but leaving for example reaper/zerk as it is? Right...

Slayer is imo one of the few classes that actually need a buff not a nerf.

I just ask you kindly. How many duels and battlegrounds have you done in the past years, to evaluate the slayer like you did (buff dmg)?

For myself i do dozen of duels every day the past 7 years against every class in this game. I played fair in every fight of my tera history and thats how i evaluate the current balancing. Fair for everyone. So please dont tell me i would just rebalance for my own advantage. I never played like this and i will never do. I even nerfed one of my biggest advantages im combat. So stop this lies.

Now to your content: Slayer should get a dmg buff must be a big joke. They allready destroying lancers and brawlers within some seconds while they dont even have to aim their skills. Everyone of his main dmg skills since rework has an circled range about 5-10 meters around them dealing 80k with just 8s or less cooldown. So he is able to do the same roundhouse combo with 240k dmg every 8-10s. Archer main skill radiant deals just like 40k with 6s cooldown. Thunderbolt 50k by 25s cd, Guest arrow 60k with 3min cd. Following with the fact that i need to aim. The slayer just punch the skill somewhere near the target. But Yeah, nerfing 240k by 30% is nerfing to the ground.

I never wrote let reaper like it is. Read again please.

Berserc actual is with his own gear actual a good and tanky class for close combat. You just reduce him to cyclone. Even this is compared with slayer worse.

In any case to evaluate these changes, it may be nice to conduct some sort of testing, as for now most of the posts I see including mine's are based on personal game experience which differs from user to user.

I don't know if anything like this has been done before and made publicly available for people to check.

For example one test could be getting level 70 of each class in a duel vs the same user both with +0 pvp gear and checking the raw damage of each skill.

Take into account this is just an example and real tests would have to be tailored towards the data you want to obtain. Also the personal experience of users can help us decide which things would be interesting to test.

Also as someone who still has pvp weapon sitting on+6, wasted over 5m gold and A LOT of plates, i agree, that the rng is just a complete mess. So far for me the so called "pvp gear enchanting" event has no effect at all. Doesn't how much i spend on it, the result is always the same, items ends up as +6.

Also the +9 options make everything just a complete mess in pvp, if you go against a +9 disciplinary weapon, all he needs is to luck with 1 combo, deal the fixed dmg and it's over. It's a mess.

arno its fine...gear is just a stat that has a minor influence on the battle, player skill is the driving force behind who wins in fights.

at least, back in 2018 frostmetal and stormcry were much closer than what even +8 and +9 is now

Quote from Flukey

arno its fine...gear is just a stat that has a minor influence on the battle, p layer skill is the driving force behind who wins in fights.

at least, back in 2018 frostmetal and stormcry were much closer than what even +8 and +9 is now

Not really. Player skill in pvp is less and less relevant.

Without taking the glitching classes (slayer/brawler) into consideration, the +9 disciplinary weapon adds a considerate luck factor into the mix. For example a warrior on 100hp, I have over 300k hp, gets a stun on me and with the +9 weapon fixed damage he flat out just kills me. 75k fixed damage is not a minor influence.

Quote from arno57

Not really. Player skill in pvp is less and less relevant.

Without taking the glitching classes (slayer/brawler) into consideration, the +9 disciplinary weapon adds a considerate luck factor into the mix. For example a warrior on 100hp, I have over 300k hp, gets a stun on me and with the +9 weapon fixed damage he flat out just kills me. 75k fixed damage is not a minor influence.

there was a little sarcasm involved, seems you never got it, likely not your fault, i never was good at jokes/sarcasm

With the new jewellery, the damage of any class, especially archer is way to high. Decrease dmg of archer by 20%, decrease of any other class by 10%.