A change to gear lvls

Hello,

Hopefully this is the right place to post this but something has been bothering me regarding gear lvls for some time so I wish to give some feedback and suggestion regarding it. Basically that it needs to change because of an issue with overlap. TLD at bottom

Earlier this week I qued many dun up to my currect max Gear lvl but when I got into one of the dungeons - the one right at the top of what is was suggested for my gear lvl - I never got to run the dungeon because the other people decided before the first boss my gear was not acceptable for the dungeon.

Now regardles of if those people should have used LFG instead of IM, I do think there is some issues with the current gear lvl set up.

Before the change in dungeon requirements recently, I was gearing and found that I had to keep my stormcry at the time gear on to que dungeons I wanted to do because the suposingly better Azart gear didn't give me the gear lvl I needed. This confused me because I was seeing monsters go down faster with my Azart weapon on opposed to my stormcry one.

What I'm trying to say is that if a gear isn't suitable for a dungeon why can myself and others IM those dungeons risking ourselves and our team mates. Yet at the same time find our stronger gear telling us we can't actually que.

Looking over Dark Light gear compared to my current gear load out, if I simply swap out my current heroic oath and Azart parts for the Dark Light I would end up with the same gear lvl at best at first. Yet if I had gone into that dungeon I was turned away from in DL gear I presume I wouldn't have been turned away. Of course there is good increase in gear lvl once you start upgrading DL but it is this overlap that is the issue.

If I am meant to be using Azart all the time up to getting my DL then Heroic Oath gear lvl probably shouldn't overlap with Azart if there is that much attack difference in it. Same for Azart to DL if I have fully upgraded Azart disk then getting DL gear actually lowers my gear lvl. Looking at things Attack modifer based this gear lvl overlap does seem to make sense when compairing Azart to DL. My Azart +4 Disc is a little weaker than a base lvl DL. However at the same time my HO Disc with half of that attack modifer is also at near enough the same gear lvl and as far as I am aware crystals do not make up enough for this attack mod difference.
If my HO gear is not really suitable for doing the dungeons gear lvl based IM is saying I can do then either the lvl for such gear needs to be altered to reflect better what it can do or the IM system needs to be altered to take gear type into account.
Applying logic most people who hit 70 should have gone through all of Exodor and gotten at least duranium gear and starting picking up Azart gear now in 68 duns. However people can just run MC until hitting 70 and if they have the gold and tokens they can get to basic HO and the relative jewlery. Then without having touched Azart gear they can suddenly run dungeons up to AQ.

TLD - HO gear lvl overlaps with early Azart/DL allowing people to IM at least up to AQ so long as they are 70. If duns like AQ are not meant for people in HO adjustments need to be made to the gear lvl of HO so it doesn't qualify or added restrictions need to be made for IMing certain dungeons. This will make it clear people have to get Azart gear from the lvl 68 duns (broker) first and prevent accidentlly creating parties with high risk of repeated wipe. Also if people awakened before patch then they didn't get the exodor scout gear so I have not applied it to this sinario.

Thank you for reading.

Quote from adidtnt

When 1st AQ arrived everyone had max HO, so its doable now with HO too, problem is it easy to get HO now and even new unskilled players have the ilvl for it.

My point is: Don't use instance matching if you care about other's people gear/dmg and make LFG instead.

Its been like this since ever.

Yeah that's my feeling when it comes to IM vs LFG. If I want a certain team build I LFG but sadly it appears there are people who will complain even though they used IM. Generally I watched and read guides before going in duns anyway and ones I know well I help people out on.
While I don't mind partying with first timers for dun I also understand some don't prep at all or aren't really ready for the dun at all (not use to seeing special mec/ rushing in with no plan) and there can be a language barrier for trying to give asstance in dun.
Maybe then instead of adjusting IM or Gear lvl people should have to have run the previous dungeons 'X' amount of times. Even though each dun is different with mec and such it would at least make sure everyone has gotten experience in a more gradual way rather than rushing straight to the highest dun they can do without having done the ones between.
The problem with that idea though is the removal and return of duns. If the system forgets that you have done that dun when it was last around but you know it like the back of your hand it would suck not to be able to do it if it had just been buffed up so now is behind something you haven't done enough runs on. Then again if the amount of runs isn't too low or too high then it maybe it would be okay.

Quote from DonaldDuck

FA should have ilvl of csh or close to it, people who used lvl 70 scroll and got couple superior items are following quest and queuing there making 99% of IM FA dungs virtually impossible to clear. They dont have dmg to break shield so even training it that way isnt possible. Once you see people inside there's no point to even try.

Quote from HellMilitia

i agree with this Dungeons like Baha and Arena have way to less Gearscore 4 IMS then needed to clear

Quote from Pomki

Only increase the ilvl to IM for dungeons above RKNM but reduce the vanguard requirements, because it can be pain in ass to gear up your alts just to get gearlvl to get vanguards when you want to farm the dungeons during events.

Quote from TruthSedge

Also the bosses are super tanky for some reason even with 480+ it's ... quite the experience, lower item level player will struggle a lot, not with mechanics but it's time consuming.

Best part, stormcry +9 is 456, people think they are ready for AQ, that item level should be raised also gvh, at least to 465-470.

I see. Perhaps injecting a couple of dungeons above RKNM to take the 456 slots, then readjusting the others pushing up ones into another teir where needed. With the ones that are clearly tankier than expected - especially regarding the ability or lack there of, to break shields/destroy time sensitive destructive mobs - should be reassessed all together as to what gear lvl makes them actually completeable.
That all said perhaps gear gates combined with gear lvl gates for dungeons could correct the problems. If the meatier duns prevented anyone without DL/An entering then at least people should stand a chance at completing them. Though if one wanted to run many alts getting them all to decent DL/An would either take a while or be costly throguh the broker. I think though I'd personally rather take longer gearing my alts (I have 16 chars all together) up over being unable to complete a dungeon because my gear is actually less useful than my gear lvl implies.

Of course won't hold my breath either partly because adjusting such things could also create other arguments/issues.
Ah I've had an idea! Perhaps what could be implimented is actually if you hover over the min item lvl in IM, you know how it just shows a little box with the text 'min item lvl' to explain what the number means. Maybe a bit of extra text could be added to that box or another box appear when hovering over the dun name or perhaps like with how the right hand panel changes to show information in the BGmenu, could show information about the dungeon to at least advise players that certain gear types might have a harder/easier time. I know that probably there will still be people not reading this sort of 'help info' but if someone found themselves in a party struggling in a dun, this way they could prehaps find out why and readjust their gear themselves without having to look outside of the game for information.

All said currently the most relaiable way of getting a dun that is actually more complicated/meatier than it seems gear lvl wise complete is LFG but I do feel sorry for people who feel they are ready for the next dungeon yet find themseleves stuggling because the gear lvl they thought they needed wasn't up to scratch.

(thinking way too hard about all of this)

Also want to thank everyone for their opinons and comments.

Quote from Skaild

The devs are aware of this problem and they will introduce a training version of GLS, a dungeon that is out for over 1 year and consists of some donut and circle mechanics... so i'd say they don't care about newcomers.

If people haven't done GLS because they come in when this trainning version appears or return at such a time and have missed GLS because of how long they have been away, then it would still be viable for newcomers/returning players. (unless of course the returning ones don't need any warm up and still remember donut circle mech like the back of their hands)
This also might be just a test for if trainning versions are viable instruction tools and they will add more trainning duns should it be useful.
One could argue a different trainning room could work better. One where you pick the boss/mech you want to practice against. Then if a player is only struggling with a particular mech then they wouldn't be doing a whole trainning dungeon but simply focusing on the mech that is holding them back.

We will have to wait and see how the trainning version of GLS actually turns out. There are a lot of other changes going on in the game and some of those might inadvertantly have rippling effects on this matter also.

Quote from Pewkie

Please elaborate on that cause I recall every dungeon to be clearable with whatever party combination you have. Maybe not on the same speed or comfyness but I'm guessing thats not the topic here.

Quote from Aeq

A zerk tank in bahaar, for example.

Be reminded that this was mostly about IM'ing stuff, as the itemlevel is of no relevance if you LFG on your server.

Quote from Uhrzeiger23

? Zerk tank is able to clear bahaar aswell

You can clear any dungeon in this game with any comb.

Regarding the side issue of class combos: I feel the viability of Zerk as a tank rests on the ability of the Zerk and the team with them being also able to pull their weight. There is some issues with Zerk's tank options not being as fleshed out in my opinion as the other alt tank Warrior.
I've had some perfectly good runs with Zerk and Warrior tanks in some dungeons but there are other factors that could have contributed to the ease of such things. I do think that if they IMed in as tank with insufficiant gear requirements because of the issue I made this Thread to cover, then the difficulty of completing a dun would incease. Especially if the rest of the team is also made up mostly of those who had fallen into this 'gear lvl trap'. Such a combination would be hardpushed even if skilled.

While I made this Thread mostly to give feedback about/discuss the false assumtions of the validaty of gear based on the gear lvl shown in the IM list, I think a certain earlier suggestion I made in another reply might be of use in the case of deciding if one should try to run a dun using a particular tank/alt-tank:

Quote from KilliDeathStar

Maybe a bit of extra text could be added to that box or another box appear when hovering over the dun name or perhaps like with how the right hand panel changes to show information in the BGmenu, could show information about the dungeon to at least advise players that certain gear types might have a harder/easier time.

If this info box also included tank recomendation for IMing a dungeon for how difficult for each tank and alt tank the dungeon might be it could assist people. I've also seen people looking for certain healer types, so maybe just a bit of side info with a pro and con of a certain class for a certain dun.
Of course the trouble is that there are certainly less Tanks than dps running around so some might simply be throwing causion to the wind because they are desperate to actually run something.

Also just want to note if everyone used LFG then there could be still bad groups made if undergeared people made a group together because that was the only way to get in dun. The problem just shifts but at its core is down to what people are shown a dun's 'gear/item lvl' is vs what a duns 'gear requirement' really is.

Maybe just an extra warning pop-up box for players in older gear about to que a dungeon or people planning to use Alt-tanks just saying something like 'you may find this dun more difficult because your gear is of an older generation'/'you may find this dun more difficult because you are choosing to to apply as a tank' would just make people think twice before hitting that IM button. Then maybe they could look for advice on what they might need to do to prepare or simply go ahead if they think they can manage.

It won't fix the issues with certain duns been put at what seem like the wrong item/gear lvl all together - certain higher dungeons do appear to need to be reavaluated all together to not lure people into the trap of mega wiping - but it might at least help with some dungeons while the transision from older gear to new gear is going on.

Thank you all again for putting up with my wall of text if you got down this far.

Quote from TruthSedge

Quick fix: look for a pve guild or find a static group also if you do some shady trading to get more bang for the buck won't hurt, I would invite you with us but ... not yet.

And to spare you a lot of stress present and future, complaining or giving feedback it won't matter, at all, you are just wasting good suggestions. It's not a game it's a company, it must earn money and changes are applied accordingly, always, to maximize sells.

You can keep going at it but do actually something worthwhile, much love!

Me personally I am just gonna chug along with gear I have and save up for the better gear the good old fashioned run duns like mad way. I probably would have a char in highest gear if I wasn't so dang distracted by costumes (of which I have a bigger bug bear reguarding a certain set of feet *says jokingly*).

Mostly just wanted to bring up the issue/give my two-cent on it. I did enjoy puzzling out possible fixes even though I know it is basically tossing things into the void. I like speculating possible fixes for issues in games and doing it also helps me accept that nothing will actually change. Why post it? Well I like to share my ideas to see if others think that hypothetical solution would solve the issue or make another one.
Anyway probably this issue will go away/change slightly in nature as patches continue to roll out and the game continues to change.

Thanks for the advice but I wouldn't have bothered posting if I didn't think I'd get some enjoyment out of seeing people's comments on the subject, so you didn't have to worry ^u^. Thank you though and best wishes.