3rd party agreement in Tera

    Hello, as the title says I have several questions regarding the 3rd party apllications and how or why some are accepted/tolerated despite the fact that they are unofficial releases by Gameforge.

    First of all Tera NA had a similar problem with these types of programs (to respect the forum rules I will avoid at any cost calling them what they are, or specifically name or link forum users to such programs, as guide for this endeavor I took example from the thread that SpaceCats posted a while ago in the Tera NA forum, rules that is, so we can have a civil discussion about this topic and be within the rules enforced here).

    So let's begin, below you will find two links from the Tera NA forum that I suggest you read:

    Denomenator - Recent DMCA Takedowns of Third-Party Programs

    KitTeaCup - Recent DMCA Takedowns of Third-Party Programs - Discussion [Updated: November 8th]


    Going back to programs that are 'tolerated', from my own experience I would have never known these existed if in certain dungeons I wouldn't been bashed for my damage per second, or being called a below average gunner and so on with clear proof of my 'wrong doing'. What followed is safe to say that I did a bit of research and what I found amazed me, I ended up using (yes I openly admit to using such a program) a program to monitor my party's dps me included I also found streams where such programs are displayed so at least for me now despite being a 3rd party application it's safe to use because no measure was taken by Gameforge in this regard. Reasons may differ for this program but the main one would be to improve class rotation, which on paper seems really good, also it provided statistics so class balance can be improved at least in PvE, an aid for new and veteran players to have. Very useful kit, until as stated above developers of such programs take it not a step further but a mile further.


    Various programs that heavily impact the game and the way it's supposed to be played, programs that automate skill use and break the in-game economy with exploits, fishing was heavily abused for a while, seemingly such actions are becoming more and more tolerated.


    In the Tera NA thread the vast majority of players complained when these 'benefits' were removed from them, so to draw a conclusion the vast majority of players don't actually play the game as it's supposed to. Various complains about ping being too high, and the only problem to solve this is with a 3rd party application, which lead to some way more severe exploits being developed and used than just improving latency. A definitive answer was given by the players in the sort of Take my proxies and I'll leave!


    Such programs only hinder development of the game the most notable being:

    -players abusing these programs for profit inside and outside the game;

    -it almost completely removes the playing part of the game since a program does this for you automatically;

    -new players are also drawn to this like moth to the flame some succumb to using others just quit;

    -most players end up leaving new and old because God forbid they ended all the content way before it was intended to with the massive speed up's from these programs;

    -quality of life changes at this point are not even worth mentioning because what is currently understood from QoL changes - game plays itself for me.


    Now after I hopefully made my point I await an aswer from both players and staff members alike as to where this 3rd party programming is taking this game, what meassures are being enforced to permanently stop malicious programs and exploits, tolerated -allegedly- programs are being integrated since some are useful. Since most of these programs are open source, code can be very fast written to shut down all malicious intent and use but it seems to be heavily lacking and very little is being done to prevent such exploits.

    Every program that injects Tera or hinders/changes it's normal and intended way of running is a 3rd party program and such it should be forbidden to use, if this comes into agreement I happily accept my punishment for using a 3rd party program to monitor my damage.

    Ban everyone who use a third party programm, proxy, script or macro, even it is just dps meter. But sadly it seems like some gameforge staff is included in develop and sell those programs to users. I never saw someone get banned for using combat proxys by gameforge in Tera EU. Only ones who got banned were fishing proxy, hard game exploiters and insulters. There are ppl ingame who have ervery shit running and playing since years while they got reported with videos several times.

    And in same way those ppl blame others for dealing bad dps or beeing bad in combat... Give mankind a finger and they will take your whole hand. Dont ban third party tools few years ago is the reason why this game is full of cheaters, scripters and exploiters today.

    Yeah, ban everyone that is using a programm like shinra :^)

    I tried so hard, and got so far... but in the end, it doesn't even matter...

    I don't want to justify the fishing exploit, but fishing is just made to be exploited. They should have never introduced it in the game. I mean, why would anybody want to fish manually like he is supposed to? It is just super boring to do. I really don't know what benefits or good gameplay elements it introduced in the game.


    And tolerating certain tools and not others is difficult to do. Where do you put the line? For example, should dungeon guides be tolerated? It makes the game easier but doesn't cast any ability. Should anti-afk modules be tolerated so you don't log out automatically after 3h of afk? Should informational modules be tolerated like the ones that store kill times of world BAMs or that track your daily EP cap? All these modules give advantages to players using them, but all are in a way justifiable.

    There is no need Zunako to take this personally and get offended, you misunderstood my point.

    I think we can both agree that if a foreign application/3rd party program is tolerated and known about the company itself Gameforge in this instance, should make it an official release or widely and publicly make the release available to each and all players therefore giving it legitimacy to be used as a standalone program or addon for Tera. Not doing so is inherently placing it as a malicious/infectious program therefore any and all use should be prohibited.

    An official statement from Gameforge is mandatory to whitelist/blacklist or integrating supported applications for the use of all players not just selective groups.

    I mean, yeah, i would appreciate a "Hey guys, shinra is "ok" from now on". But the system doesnt work like that (like Zerpedal ready said). I would love to get the Bam HP Baar removed, and maybe stuff like SP or PC. But i dont really think they care about it. If you report someone, they ban him, bec they have to.

    I tried so hard, and got so far... but in the end, it doesn't even matter...

    To follow up on fish botting. Instead of banning all fish botters, they should just make the sale value of fishes 0 and reduce xp gain. To compensate this lost xp they can add xp rewards when you turn in fishes to the fishmonger and to compensate the gold loss they can increase the fishmonger prices for example. That way there is no reason anymore to fishbot.

    Quote from TruthSedge

    Since most of these programs are open source, code can be very fast written to shut down all malicious intent and use but it seems to be heavily lacking and very little is being done to prevent such exploits.

    Taken from the main post.


    The company must care because if not it's just backhanding itself, also to have the knowledge to report someone due to an exploit you must have first hand experience to know of the problem (like in my case, I saw something fishy with the dps, I went and looked for the cause) , it's not exactly a godly feat to design and implement anti-script measures with the application and the source code being open source.


    ///


    Modules should be prohibited and anything that gives advantage over another number of players, like I said the game plays itself for you, a more docile example being yours Zerped with the anti-afk one. In all honesty, a player that already has these installed, do you think it will be the end of it? Nothing more will be installed in the future?

    Ban anyone who doesn't use proxy or dps meter, because that means they don't want to push their dps - hence, under performing and being just a deadweight to the rest of the party

    I do feel that with these programs that it's taking away my ability to perform compared to others with the scripts that come with built in auto macro's. I think the biggest problem should be taken action against those because they take away the legit players ability to compete that put so much effort to refine their skills to beat the moongourd charts but taken away by cheaters.


    Though there are skill-prediction developers that refuse to implement cheat like functions and just offer it as QoL function to people with high ping because I know how it feels to play with 150ms ping on NA.

    I think those are fine for PVE but should be blocked in PVP because I have too many WTF moments in PVP but have no solid evidence.


    What i don't like now that it became mandatory to use all these plugins to give you an advantage like hiding other players to give you optimal non obstructed view and and more fps, dungeon guides so you don't have to think and focus only on your rotations.


    But it's all on BHS/krafton for this problem as they refuse to implement any sort of lag compensation/skill queuing system so players with higher ping don't have to rely on proxy to compete with low ping players. We've already discussed this many times for years but blatantly ignored by BHS.

    It would be incredibly interesting to see what TERA would look like if there weren't any 3rd party programs tolerated or involved because - as a matter of fact - TERA Proxy has left a huge impact on how (both literally and figuratively) TERA looks right now.

    Removing Spell Effects from other players, minimise UI, making your DMG become transparent, even the DPS-Meter inside the training area - all of these changes to the game have been officially implemented because of TERA Proxy and because of EME communicating closely with Proxy developers and forwarding their results to Bluehole. In this case, it's fair to say that we've gotten at least something good out of that.


    On the other hand, though, there's cheaters, fishing bots, scripts and what not shenanigans which have found their way into everyday TERA. Those things are unacceptable to me as they not only directly affect the game and it's economy itself but also other players' experience which, at least to some degree, is also the case with a DPS meter once players start bashing you for not dealing their desired damage. However, this DPS meter has been tolerated for years now since it's become an integral part of what constitutes one, if not the biggest part of TERA, namely competition. Although it's always a question about what you make of something, I have yet to cross a MMO which is so insatiably focused on how one's or others' performances are - it's almost unbearable. But apparently, that's what the majority of the community wants, otherwise moongourd would've been taken down a very long time ago.


    To summarise whatever illogical nonsense I might have written down: I'm not a fan of a black-and-white mindset because TERA Proxy has provided TERA non-Proxy with a lot of useful tools and ideas which are officially part of TERA as it is being played now. However, all sorts of bots or automatic scripts which enable players to achieve what otherwise could only be achieved by playing actively should be banned immediately.


    Cheers!

    Imagine making a drama about shinra meter :dedd:


    Talking seriously, Shinra meter is for a lot of high end players the only excitement in a dungeon after a few clears.

    I mean what's the point in clearing 600 times Bahar like i did ? ( some ppl have even more, reaching 1K clears )

    Shinra just gives us a goal to reach which is performing better in terms of personnal DPS or buff uptime if you are a Healer.


    Now i can understand the fact that being flamed about your personnal DPS is kinda frustrating, and you have to know that, even tho gf tolerate Shinra Meter, they don't tolerate flaming people for their DPS, especially linking shinra meter in chat and saying " lol u bad af ".

    So next time just screen and report them ;)


    When it comes to these script, macros, that you mentionned, i must say i'm kinda upset with this mentality consisting of saying " since people use them, other people have to ".

    I mean we are all mature enough to make our own choice, hiding behind these kind of statements is just being weak. Nobody is forcing you to use scripts and macro.

    You have to know that lots of players are really competitive in terms of DPS without using anything.


    I guess you just made that post out of pure frustration, but i wanted to state 1 or 2 things that i personnally find important.

    Un-Lancier

    It's not frustration that made me write the post, I'm a casual player I won't even wave my handkerchief at Bahaar. The game is based on grinding, faster times in dungeons due to 3rd party programs executing skills in a perfect order at the perfect time with 0ms, really takes the edge on fairness, and by searching for that dps thing I came across a whole nother world of scrips and cheats.

    It's a lot to read in the main post but please understand that I would love for a dps meter to be implemented and other programs that are helpful and bring a lot to the game, but even so, with the current rules they are 3rd party and offer an edge to the player.

    What I try to point out is a desire for a more strict regulation and protection against malicious scripts, as for developers I am not trying to steal your thunder, my intention is to help I am perfectly aware it means nothing, I would love to see a helpful 3rd party program integrated and recognized by Gameforge, and as a player you won't learn about it the hard way.



    Quote from Un-Lancier

    You have to know that lots of players are really competitive in terms of DPS without using anything.

    If you never know how good or bad you do, believe me you are perfect in a perfect world thinking you do absolutely ok.

    Quote from tobtheking2

    coming from Mr. sits on a tree until the BAMs gets low and tries to lasthit it:elin40:

    Wanna see a Clip from that. Soloed in the last few Weeks around 40., and in the whole time around 150. You cant tell me that i`m not putting efford into them. But yea, i still think its cancer content with this shit, and i would love to see it removed.

    I tried so hard, and got so far... but in the end, it doesn't even matter...

    Quote from TruthSedge

    Un-Lancier

    It's not frustration that made me write the post, I'm a casual player I won't even wave my handkerchief at Bahaar. The game is based on grinding, faster times in dungeons due to 3rd party programs executing skills in a perfect order at the perfect time with 0ms, really takes the edge on fairness, and by searching for that dps thing I came across a whole nother world of scrips and cheats..

    You sure make this sound magical. A modicum amount of knowledge is required to make these scripts work too. Though some paid 3rd party applications are pretty crazy haha


    But I don't really see it killing the game. The game is unpopular because of different reasons and not because a small group is using these cheats and an even smaller percentage is utilizing it properly.


    And why do you care so much? Just go with your casual friends to do dungeons and you will be happy.

    Quote from lail

    Though some paid 3rd party applications are pretty crazy haha

    It took me 3 minutes, a presentation video, a contact person and now I understand this far too well, still under no circumstance I will use such programs, or it is reasonable to defend such behaviour and just turn a blind eye, the game is not supposed to play itself for you.


    Killing the game no, perhaps not, but what killed PvP? Was it skillful players or proxies? Why was it so frowned upon, PvP is insanely more competitive than PvE, should it return in the current state to run it into the ground from day 1?

    the devs should look at what the community are doing 3rd party wise since the community highlights issues the devs might not see...and then make there own official moderated version bundled with the games install

    many people make the same S1 file edits for fps? devs change the default S1 file to an improved one...
    people have bad ping, they make a 3rd party skill predictor softwhere..devs .now make there own skillpredictor and have it installed as part off the base game

    at least then there would be less off a moral gray line off what should and shouldnt be acceptable