Proposed change for Gear Enchantment System

  • Greetings everyone, greetings @Athena @Atmorph

    Now with a few weeks into the new Patch, im sure many of you already had your experiences with this. Im talking about the enchantment and upgrade system.

    You know it yourself, some players run around having spendt almost nothing and are perhaps already +2 with a few tries, meanwhile other dudes standing on +46% upgrade chance for +1 and are still failing.

    What is wrong here?

    The issue is one little detail: the correction chance you get from each fail, is always the same value

    with having a gear piece maxed out, you have 20% chance to upgrade it +2% for each fail. this means that after 5 tries, you have an overall 75% chance to have your piece upgraded until now.

    so, 74.73% (3/4 players) already have their +1, but the other 1/4 is now at 30% and still needs to continue

    go a bit further into and we may end up here quite some time

    (not mine btw, i enchanted mine after 2 tries cause well rng)

    so, in enchantment costs so far (7 tries)

    1841 Golden Plates
    350 Silver Plates
    735 Metals
    49 Diamonds
    189 Limbs
    245k Gold

    and now again. "why should one part of the community keep spending hardcore amounts of money and still gain nothing from it?"

    What is my proposed change?

    quite simple: do not make the correction per fail a static +% value, and instead change it to increase exponentially or progressive per fail

    an example can look like this:
    20% base +1%, +2%, +3%, +5%, +8%, +13%, +21% +34% (this means after 8 fails you are over 100%)

    or like this:
    20% base +0.25% +0.5% +1% +2% +4% +8% +16% +32% +64% ( this means after 9 fails you are over 100%)

    and how does it look after 5 tries?

    for first example, you would be at 75.15% players, however the other 24.85% can simply not go over 5 more tries

    for second example, im at only 69.83% of players, therefore while still being objectively worse , the other 30.17% players can simply not go over 6 more tries (compared to being at 30% upgrade chance, and you know you can still fail with 40% chance in the current system)

    i would *love* to hear what the rest of the community thinks of it

    Greetings, Galtero/Miriam

  • Yeah, when you realize how much more being unlucky costs you it's surreal.

    There isn't many people that get there but 8/9 tries at these costs and nothing ? That's game-quitting situation right there.

  • Going to have fun to enchant +3 with a 1.5 fail bonus.

  • Well, at this point I'd rather have Apex enchanting back. While the chances are higher (let's be generous and assume it was 5% back then), the costs are disproportional to them - failures hurt more than ever before, and this is not just for gear but even jewelry. The dungeons - unless you run Dreadspire parallel to them - don't provide the necissary diamonds for people (one diamond per run that is rolled between 5 people is DEFINITELY NOT enough in relation to these costs). Dungeon specific materials, mainly Metals and Weights, are scarce from dungeons, and don't even get me started on Plates, ESPECIALLY silver ones.

    I'm sorry, but particularly on EU where many people enjoy playing multiple characters/alts, I don't see how such an enchantment system makes any practical sense. It is barely possible to even gear up one character with these absurd costs, unless you are, I don't know, Fortuna herself? Going to be even worse with +3 and its 4% base chance and 1,5% correction, I don't even want to know how +4-+9 look like - 2000 Plates per enchant with 10000 Metals per try at 0,5% base chance? ... I mean, even in comparison to Apex Enchantment back then, unlucky people will get brutalized more than ever.

    Honestly, do something about it - and setting the enchantment correction back to Stormcry's 3% is the LEAST you can do.

    Edit: @Galtero
    While progressive Enchantment correction makes sense, I think making it exponential from the get go makes it unnoticeable with low amount of tries and overkill with too many. I'd rather suggest linear enchantment correction until a certain point (i.E. certain number of tries) where it then starts kicking off exponentially.

  • @Assazinchen

    This is Not RNG

    20% is with max xp and you get 2% per fail so that means 22 fails?

    22 x 157 gold plates = 3454 gold plates
    22 x 30 silver plates = 660 silver plates
    22 x 63 blue cube = 1386 blue cubes ( these are like 1k each?)
    22 x 16 springs? = 352 springs
    22 x 4 diamonds = 88 diamonds
    22 x 21k gold = 462k gold

    jagex please do something

  • Well, months to basically be succesfull enchanting one or two levels is moronic at least. It has been discussed many times, the rng values are not really rng when the cost is so extremely high. The cost is obviously made that way to promote rich whales among other things. Sad, very sad.

  • The current HO Enchantment System is dishartening at the very least, when we had +15 Enchantment you could always just go the easy route and just buy your weapon if someone was selling his.
    Because we can't liberate current HO Gear, your stuck with it, you need to commit into one class.

    New Players who don't have resources farmed from old EX dungeons and don't have a few milion Gold can't even catch up to this gear cycle, if they see the enchantment costs they probably outright quit the game before they start this insane grind.

    Maybe just get us an option where we can choose to use more materials for a 100% upgrade instead of playing the RNG game.
    (How many more materials will probably be up for discussion)

    "The black dress was fringed by countless laces and frills. These outlines of her were enfolded by metallic protectors on the back of her hands and a rustic tasset. Her looks reminded one of the ceremonial robes of medieval knights—an odd mixture that could be called neither dress nor armour. And finally, where normally there might have been a ribbon, she was wearing an old, metallic chest."

  • You can be the toughest & most commited MF in the game but end up getting screwed over and over by a virtual dice roll.
    But keep talking about effort.

  • That actually reminds me, wasn't the purpose of the new enchantment system to bring a more linear and forgiving progression to gear? Because as it currently stands, you are paying in tons of materials to either fail, or get a minuscule upgrade unless you gain an extra stat line for it. Now it still is way more unforgivable in terms of costs (and this was the case even with +8 -> +9 Stormcry!). At least with +15, if you succeeded, the differences were noticable. Only real thing to note from back then was that new gear was never better than older one, unless enchanted to a certain point (and that once you hit that point, your old gear became obsolote, unless liberated, which you can't do with current gear either!).

    In any case, I don't know about you, but this is discouraging at the very least. I believe that people who can consistently and efficiently run endgame content should be rewarded for being able to do so, and be the ones able to enchant their gear to the maximum, instead of being selected by an RNG algorythm, which can also screw them over entirely.

    So yeah, further suggestions to a better enchantment correction algorythm include:
    - more accessibility to select materials, Blue Metals right now are insane to come by for how many of them you need, and Silver talents/Plates are almost unobtainable from any PvE source.
    - A "failsafe" enchantment option at higher costs - at least you get what you paid for, even if it is completely disproportional for a linear increase.
    - a Cost reduction? This would only really be necissary if nothing else can be done.

  • As soon as I saw the item xp I knew this system was going to suck.

    Revert to old system +1-9->masterwork +10-12->Awaken +13-15 to bring back cool looking items with their inventory icons. Get rid of tiered crap and all sorts of different mats. Simply normal alkahest, refined alkahest, masterwork alkahest and maybe extensive, rare etc. Feedstock is better than the original fodder items. But don't have tiered feedstock, just higher amounts for high level gear or refined and masterwork feedstock to stay consistent. Dismantle Common and uncommon items for normal feedstock, rare items for refined, superior items for masterwork feedstock for example. Remove rng altogether at least from awakened enchanting. Higher price per enchant level, but no chance to fail. Not even the option for lucky enchant.

    All gear tiers require materials now. That's stupid and horrible and clutters the game with items that become useless for one character while you still need them for alts. But they keep dropping in dungeons, gg, vanguards, events etc. So you pretty much have to keep a slot reserved for them in your inventory if you don't want to constantly keep banking them to avoid cluttering your inventory that is always in perfect order. It was much better when it was reserved for the BiS items only so there only were a couple of materials per patch (and those craftable items weapon/armorcrafters could use had a couple of specific mats). And while you're at it, remove all untradable duplicate items that do exactly the same thing as their tradable counterparts. No VMWA or Godly alkahest or 100 different types of bravery and noctenium etc.

  • Are you sure, that gf is even allowed to change sth. about it?
    Yes, 8 trys max for uping stuff sounds good, but when I look at reported bugs and the time period they took to fix it (some of them still not fixed yet) I would not assume this to happen.

  • Are you sure, that gf is even allowed to change sth. about it?
    Yes, 8 trys max for uping stuff sounds good, but when I look at reported bugs and the time period they took to fix it (some of them still not fixed yet) I would not assume this to happen.

    The things Gameforge "could" change are supply of items via event, and even there likely are restrictions from side of Bluehole. so no, GF is not allowed to change this base function of the game.
    they can however forward it to Bluehole which is what the intend is of this thread (since i cant contact bluehole directly)

  • The problem is, if they forward it to bh, bh decides to change it and then implements it into future patches, it will not solve the problem we got now! It will take 6 months till this change happens for use like the change they made with juwelery materials, to make them bankable. Cool for players which start to upgrade in 3 months but will not help us at the moment.