Corsair's Stronghold Strategy

This thread has potential for greatness.

Quote from Xylophone

Listening to music or playing sth else doesn't exactly solve the problem. I want to PvP on TERA, not play another game. If I want to play sth else I don't need to run CS. Ofc lvl 30 vs lvl 60 isn't fair, but that's not what I meant. What I meant is that all the vm2 guys can't rely on gear anymore and most of em die like flys. You also get the chance to try out chars in PvP that you might have created for PvE (just like my zerk). Besides mixing the teams for the lvl is sth that should be done by the matching system.

Well that's too bad then. I have actually fun looking at the others struggling to fight with each other (inb4 "KILLSTEALER YOU FCKING NUB GO DLT YOU GAME PLZ"/ "NUB LEAD SCAN YOU MOTHAFCKA") and not caring about anything but my ladder (and not dying in the other game, too, of course). But people are different, aren't they?

Quote from Veseere

When leader gives you assignment (which can be staying inners, staying mid or going outside or whatever), you listen to your leader - that's why he's the leader.

The worst thing in CS is having to play amongst mindless people, who don't listen to their leader and do not execute the strategy.

If the leader tells you to let the enemy team win, do you listen to him because he's the leader due to ILv170 or because he wants the points?

Quote from Xylophone

Well I can apply as lead, my ilvl is 169 and so I get lead in 95% of the
cases.

Please don't, since the leader's job is to sit on his behind at inners, scan every cooldown and react properly to enemy's moves. And that is too much of a job for a guy who goes to 20v20 battleground just to pew pew.

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I can just put a random group at the inner wall and then flame
them if some1 gets trough, but that's not the point.

Why would you flame them, since they're acting exactly like you? They won't defend ladders because PEW PEW, so you guys actually share similar philosophy.

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The point is if you wanna win you can def the inner wall yourself

No, the point is if I wanna win I can def the inner wall with 4-5 other people. Assuming the leader won't assign us to do something else. And then I will do this thing, because when I don't lead I actually listen to whoever does.

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and aslong as there are ppl who bot the game to just stand afk in bg and farm points Idm being flamed for killing ppl outside the outter wall.

I'm just really suprised by your ignorance. If someone is doing something wrong, it automaticly justifies you to do the wrong thing too? That is kindergarden-level thinking.

When there are AFKers, the job of protecting inners is even MORE important.

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I rather be hated by my team and have fun than being bored at the inner ladder.

Then go have fun in TERA's solo content, because I repeat: your idea of having fun in CS is ruining other people's gameplay. Because guess what, most normal people have their fun from an excellent strategy execution and therefore winning the BG. Not from going outside, doing mindless pew pew and not caring about your team (seriously, where is the fun in that? Where is the fun in intentionally being a burden to your team?)

You want to pew pew, go to fraywind. Loser buff you say? Ah, so i get it, you only like PvP when it's not challenging.

You know the funny thing? Fighting outside isn't even doing anything in the first place, whether you have people on inner ladders or not. So, while he's having "fun" he's not only refusing to stay at inner ladders (which is understandable), but being a detriment to the team as he's simply not doing anything.

And I just love people who say it's all about gear, but I own them in CS too. They fight alot of newbies in CS and think they're so great at basic PvP. Protip: if the enemy is actively fighting you outside the gates, then you're fighting noobs. As you say, that's your "fun", but sorry to burst your bubble, good players will ignore your existence as you're doing absolutely nothing.

Unless you go for their tanks. But I doubt you get fun from hit & run.

Quote from Aeq

If the leader tells you to let the enemy team win, do you listen to him because he's the leader due to ILv170 or because he wants the points?

I have been to over 400 CS battles and never encountered such a thing. You know why? Because people want to win, not intentionally lose. Even AFKers don't care about winning or losing, but they rather win than lose, because of higher amount of credits received. Also, I have never encountered a single case of wintrading in CS. So stop making stupid points for the sake of argument, you're terrible at it

Here is what I do when I am leading a CS.

ATTACK PHASE:

Save airships for later. Tell people to spawn at base when they die, fill the right airship and then go ninja the crystal.

Pick a gate, north or south doesn't matter which, though I prefer north.
Instruct all to go there. Two people can go to the other end and bring two more tanks, but it's not vital.
Tell tanks to shoot at the siege guns, as to not interrupt the people on the gate.

Once gate is down, zerg your way to middle pyre.
DO NOT CAP IT YET.

First take over the 1st siege gun then take the 2nd siege gun.
You may cap the pyre now quite easily.

Proceed to main gate, take it down.
If you see a tank inside take it over and shoot at the crystal.

Easy and safe attack.

DEFENSE PHASE:

You are the leader stay at inner with 2-3 more peeps.
After first airship has come the rest may leave, though it's nice to have some people there just in case.

Hold middle pyre untill 5minutes left in round. Now it's time for all the raid to come inside.Defend the ladders,kill the ones that bug through the door and you just won a CS.

gZ all

NOTES:
Be polite to your minions.Noone listens to a rude leader.
Scan so you you can please the noob that that keeps shouting "skann nab leed" and keep the chat clean.

Instruct in raid chat /raid.
Use /n only for short commands or notices, example "airship" "scanning" "good job"

Cheers

Quote from Veseere

I have been to over 400 CS battles and never encountered such a thing. You know why? Because people want to win, not intentionally lose. Even AFKers don't care about winning or losing, but they rather win than lose, because of higher amount of credits received. Also, I have never encountered a single case of wintrading in CS.

It seems you're not getting what I tried to say. For me, it looks like you assume a leader is always doing great, the one and only leader, a living legend, you have to follow his orders, even it means dying 27057 times, just because the leader tells you to do so. Which is pathetic if you ask me, to be honest.
You may have noticed already, but just in case you've not, I'll tell you - if no one signs up as a lead, it will go random to a player (afaik the player with the highest Item Level is preferred). Let's assume this lead says "Do what you want." (Which I've encountered sometimes, and I've been to about 400 CS battles, too). What do you do? Go to a ladder while the other 18 are streetfighting outside. The leader goes afk, because he doesn't care much about the outcome.
You lose of course. Whose fault is it now? The one of the 18 people streetfighting outside because they aren't able to use common sense? The lead who went afk? The opponent team because it is to strong? Is it anyone's fault at all?

If you still don't get it, I'm sorry. I tried my best to explain.

About CS-wintrading: I've encountered actually some cases in which someone start's the southern airship on purpose and jumps out. Same goes for the inner tank which was driven inside. You cannot tell me it doesn't exist.
There were also times where you were able to sign up 10 persons. If they get into a team it's allright. And if not, one team has 5 players less (which is a lot).

Quote from Veseere

So stop making stupid points for the sake of argument, you're terrible at it

Hey, thanks a lot!

Quote from Aeq

About CS-wintrading: I've encountered actually some cases in which someone start's the southern airship on purpose and jumps out. Same goes for the inner tank which was driven inside. You cannot tell me it doesn't exist.
There were also times where you were able to sign up 10 persons. If they get into a team it's allright. And if not, one team has 5 players less (which is a lot).

I think you are mistaken here.

It's not wintradding at all.

Someone starts the ship cause lvl of retardness is over 9000.The ones that jump out simply don't want to be in a suicide box.

About the players leaving --getting 10man teams-- some people when they get pulled in ,they look at the average ratings of the two teams.If they are in a 900vs a 1100 one they /drop.This is contagious,if one does it,more will do it.

There is no such thing as wintradding in CS..

Cheers

Quote from Xylophone

I know fighting outside the wall isn't exactly the most prodcutive thing you can do but it's still not doing nth and better than being afk.

It can be really productive ,but I don't do this anymore since people crying cheaters afterwards.How does it work?

You get two parties to go out. A bigger one at the pyre where the enemies are ,and a smaller at the other pyre. Two or three people stay at mid and another two at inner.

You cap both pyres then move all tanks to enemy base.It's hard to get kills without the tanks and since mirror charm you will lose some people too,but it's quite fun to do once in a few CS when you see 2 or 3 premades in your group.

Proof of concept.

The above SS is with 3man premade the rest in our team were scrubs as well.I said 2-3 premades because the majority of people that need a premade to win in CS are scrubs themselves.

They have protection.The crystal gives immunity (it renews every 10seconds) unless you decide to use a skill...

Quote from GRat

I think you are mistaken here.

It's not wintradding at all.

Someone starts the ship cause lvl of retardness is over 9000.The ones that jump out simply don't want to be in a suicide box.

You're actually right in on point - it wasn't wintrading, that's right. Mea culpa, I'm sorry.
But, what I tried to tell is that the one starting the ship alone was doing it due to the participation of high-rating-guys. He went to the ship, jumped in and started it alone, jumped out, before it got to the cannons. He did the same with the inner tank, jumped in, drove it down and wasn't doing anything at all.

As said, you're right, it isn't wintrading, but something similar if you ask me.

Quote from Aeq

It seems you're not getting what I tried to say. For me, it looks like you assume a leader is always doing great, the one and only leader, a living legend, you have to follow his orders, even it means dying 27057 times, just because the leader tells you to do so. Which is pathetic if you ask me, to be honest. You may have noticed already, but just in case you've not, I'll tell you - if no one signs up as a lead, it will go random to a player (afaik the player with the highest Item Level is preferred). Let's assume this lead says "Do what you want." (Which I've encountered sometimes, and I've been to about 400 CS battles, too). What do you do? Go to a ladder while the other 18 are streetfighting outside. The leader goes afk, because he doesn't care much about the outcome.

The only point of my previous post was - let's be reasonable. If a leader tells you to lose the game, of course you don't listen to him, I'm very well aware of that. If he says 'Do what you want', you have no orders to listen, so you either rely on your friends and try to do something useful based on your experience, or actually go and do what you want because of thinking that this is pretty much a lost cause. And you still can do something useful, assuming that the leader is the only one who doesn't want to play in the raid. You still can cover the ladders if you see that other people are actually trying to win, even without lead.

When the leader knows what he's doing, which is the majority of the cases (I don't know if you see this, but if someone incapable of leading gets the leader, he usually asks in chat who wants to lead. And passes it.) then your job is to listen to him. That what I was talking about. There is a raid leader in every raid for a reason, and this reason is to follow him.

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You lose of course. Whose fault is it now? The one of the 18 people streetfighting outside because they aren't able to use common sense? The lead who went afk? The opponent team because it is to strong? Is it anyone's fault at all?

It is of course the leader's fault, don't know why you put such an effort in a rhetorical question.

What you don't seem to get is this: I am talking about MAJORITY of the cases. And from my personal experience, leader being afk/dumb/feeder is the MINORITY of the cases. So yeah, if you see a leader saying 'do what you want, i'm watching tv anyway' you still can contribute a little if your teammates aren't those kind of retards who go out and pvp with 18 people. Which is the topic of this conversation here.

My point is: you follow your leader's orders. If the leader is AFK, there are no orders at all, so your arguments are really misguided.

Now I'm not saying that you're not allowed to go outside while defending at all. You can, if you're assigned to do it. You can even if you're assigned to defend mid, and see that the enemy is far from destroying the gate and not using ladders. But you simply don't do it if you're assigned to inners. Because if everyone would think like Xylophone, you would always lose due to a lucky airship. Or really anyone who gets to the inner yard.

Quote from Veseere

What you don't seem to get is this: I am talking about MAJORITY of the cases. And from my personal experience, leader being afk/dumb/feeder is the MINORITY of the cases. So yeah, if you see a leader saying 'do what you want, i'm watching tv anyway' you still can contribute a little if your teammates aren't those kind of retards who go out and pvp with 18 people. Which is the topic of this conversation here.

First off - yeah, you're talking about the MAJORITY, I've read and accepted that, but it sounded like you were talking about ALWAYS. That's why I asked.

Quote from Veseere

My point is: you follow your leader's orders. If the leader is AFK, there are no orders at all, so your arguments are really misguided.

There we go again. I'll show you a nice, and somewhat better example (Actually, you were right about that, going AFK and telling the team to do what they want isn't really "giving orders". My apologies about that.).

Yesterday, i went with two of my guildmates in CS - one somewhat-badass-sorcerer and an awesome priest. We invited two other sorcerers to our group and signed up, got an invite afterwards. We played 1012 vs. 1019 - so pretty "equal" teams in respect of rating. Our leader told us to break the gate - but in fact, only about five people were attacking it, the rest was streetfighting the opponent team (I HATED that at this point, I have to admit - they just should have listened to that leader) or walking on the outer wall and distracting the cannons. At the point we finally broke the gate, 5 guys with the southern airship got in, the enemy went after them. One ladder was coverd by the tank, one was free. 3-4 more guys got in over the ladder - but then they defended the ladders somewhat again, but they were about 10-14 inside (which is somewhat wrong btw), at least that's what the priest and the sorc told me.
The important point comes now - the leader told us to get to the ladders because they were free, but sorc X we've brought asked if it'd be better to get to the mid pyre. The Lead says no.
The result was a loss of about 4-6 minutes at the inner ladders and the leader was still trying to get the team to the inner ladders - with success, but that wasn't right at the point. The guildmate-sorc, me and 2 priests decided finally not to listen to the leader's orders and made the middle pyre ours.
It took us 14 mins to destroy the crystal which would be way shorter if f we abandoned the five guys inside the suicidal prison (Sorry, guys. ) and went mid.
Ironically the lead made basically the same mistake in the defenging round again. I'll cut a long story short here - he told the team (2-3 ppl at least) to get to the inner ladders while the inner gate was going down. Luckily, the guildmate-mage and the -priest went outside and captured the pyre, which forced the opponents to start over from the spawnpoint.

TL; DR: It really helps sometimes to ignore the lead's orders and start thinking for yourself a little bit.

Quote from Veseere

But you simply don't do it if you're assigned to inners. Because if everyone would think like Xylophone, you would always lose due to a lucky airship. Or really anyone who gets to the inner yard.

Xylo never mentioned anything about being assigned to a ladder. At least I didn't find anything. Maybe I've overread.
He only mentioned he got bored by always defending a ladder and wants to go outside now.

Yes Aeq, I know those kind of situations. The blame is of course on the leader. As I said earlier:

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leader being afk/dumb/feeder is the MINORITY of the cases

In this case he was dumb, for not reacting to enemy's moves. And you must agree those kind of situations are not happening in the majority of battlegrounds. You see, my point is: there is a certain kind of hierarchy at the battleground, and it is there for a reason. You misunderstood me, I wasn't saying that you have to always listen to the leader, when you see that he's obviously unexperienced or he's missing something. But we have chat available at battlegrounds. When you see a gap in enemy's strategy, you inform your team about it. I've been in many battlegrounds, when while attacking mid someone saw that inners are empty. He's reporting that fact on the chat, and the leader reacts with notice. If he doesn't - that means he's a bad leader. Again, in majority of the cases - you listen to the leader. If you see that he's AFK/dumb/feeder - then you try to contribute as much as you can, based on your own experience.

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Xylo never mentioned anything about being assigned to a ladder. At least I didn't find anything. Maybe I've overread.
He only mentioned he got bored by always defending a ladder and wants to go outside now.

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Everytime I'm assigned to be at the inner wall I tell the leader I won't do it

And when he's openly stating in chat that he won't do it, that just encourages the rest of the team to question the leader. So in effect, noone will stay there. Cause he said no, so why can't I, etc etc.

The most ridiculous thing about this battleground is this simple fact: people won't stay at inners, then the enemy exploits that fact, wins, and then everybody, I mean everybody is like 'ya noobs didn't stay inner, noob team, what a waste of time' while they were the ones that went outside to pvp. Or do anything else but protecting inners.

This BG is about contribution, and I know that defending inners may be boring and doesn't give you much contribution points - but man, you were assigned to it, swallow your pride and take one for the team, because it is the single most important thing to do during the defence round.