Talisman System

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    • Awakening is a welcoming pve change for healers, seriously, as a healer i get bored all the time, only fun i have as a heal is when i lvled up a healer and had to carry people who where undergeared and were new to this game, so no evasion and they didn't knew how to dps rotate
      PVP NOT DEAD
      just switched place, forums and global is where pvp action exists
    • modi3 wrote:

      Awakening is a welcoming pve change for healers, seriously, as a healer i get bored all the time, only fun i have as a heal is when i lvled up a healer and had to carry people who where undergeared and were new to this game, so no evasion and they didn't knew how to dps rotate
      Which still happens all the time even at lv.65 if you're bold enough to use instance matching \o/
      In fact, low skilled squads on are my favourite on healer.
      My YouTube channel (Inactive :elin25: )
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    • Galtero wrote:

      at least they do give you supplementary talisman, so you can just about more or less mimic the stats you currently have

      from then on, having special skill boosts always means you loose base stats, meaning its always a question of: is this really better? so as it stands, the low talismans actually are still relevant compared to t4, just not any full T4 set that synergizes well and is most likely gimmicky
      Depends on class. Warrior for example around 50% of their dps come form scythe. And if you have all OP scythe talisman you get more dmg increase.

      I mean if the boss is enrage (and this is the point) you get 37,5% increased dmg. Without enrage = 18,9%.

      I already saw a 32% increase dmg on scythe @ 50% chance (so basicly 16% all the time) and another 16% flat increase (100%) and other small damage boosts.

      So you get 32% increased scythe dmg just for 2 out of 8 possible talsiman stats. If you have all the scythe talisman you can still stick with T1 or T2 with base stats
    • modi3 wrote:

      Also, borsuc&kraxler, i dislike rng as well. I'd rather have double/triple the amount of average farm and be sure rather than rng.
      Even when i'm in the lucky end (when diamonds drop in pop/gg) i feel sad because it reminds me "it ll be another month till i see a good drop". So for some people like me, even when they get lucky, rng makes them sad.
      I used to be against this kind of RNG long ago until I saw the math.

      Of course, it depends what kind of rng, most people confuse them. The fail/success rng is the easiest because it's much more beneficial than a system where you have to spend 50% more than the average but it's guaranteed. Ok, so maybe you're unlucky as hell (someone will be) and you failed a lot. But you can equally be lucky the next time (or on another piece). Most people don't care about that. When it happens after being "cursed" with "luck" they're like "meh, at least it offsets my pain" when in fact they've already paid less than a rng-less system that costs 50% more.

      But the other type of RNG is where people are usually more wrong. Let's talk cash shop, because it's easier, rng box where you don't choose what you get, and you get mostly crap with the jackpot being something that you really want (costume or otherwise). Someone works out the odds of obtaining it, and of course people will say, oh, I'll gladly pay 50% more for that item only to guarantee I get it.

      First of all, you'd have to be at least 50% below the average with luck to even consider it good (but people have emotional arguments ofc), so it's an obvious disadvantage already. What's worse is that the box gives you a ton of crap too. Crap that, actually, has value when accumulated (you sell it). Something which you won't get when you pay 50% more for the item in question to "guarantee it". Paying triple is just ridiculous and I hope you weren't being serious.

      If you have the cash reserves, opening rng boxes in almost any game is usually profitable (like brokering), simply because people who buy your shit are emotional like Kraxler, lol. Their loss, your gain. The casino doesn't give a shit when someone wins the jackpot, even if it loses big, because it knows it's rare (and equally likely someone will lose big, if not already). Over the long term, it wins because of math. Everyone thinks he has cursed luck, but only a tiny minority will end up that way (this is a statistical fact).

      The reason they add RNG is, like I said, to hide the costs or grind.

      If they put up a costume for 500 euro people will flip their shit in most games, even if that's its average cost from the rng box. Hey, the box itself is only 1 euro or so!! Cheap!!! My hatred for RNG stems from this fact: it's just a way to manipulate the clueless people.


      EDIT: Think of it this way, when you pay triple.

      If someone offered you with 90% chance to triple your investment (you know he is not a scammer, close friend or whatever), would you give him gold? 10% chance you lose it all though (well how much you decide to invest). I'm guessing you haven't ever invested in something in the real world to understand just how priceless such an opportunity is. Remember, casinos are happy with just a 51% to 52% chance. You instead get a way higher asymmetric opportunity in your favor.

      That's basically what you refuse when you want to pay triple to "guarantee it with no risk". (and btw 90% is way too low, it should probably be 99% but eh... whatever)
    • Well, let's have the following scenario.
      I earn 1k daily and there are 2 car sellers.
      One requires 1k to buy a percentage to win a 30k euro car and the other one requires 50k to buy a 30k euro car.
      Well, while there are people that would fall for the 1st car seller, and there are some lucky ones, i'd rather work 50 days and get a car, rather than try my luck .

      Would you prefer the rng or the sure/secure route ?
      I would prefer the secure one, since i would know that the 51st day i would go to work with a car.That would actually make the work count towards a goal. While some might go from the 2nd day, others from the 15th, others from the 30th, others from the 60th, and others will be using public transport or taxis their whole lives waiting to win the lottery.It's pretty much in the mindset. I'd rather have some specific miles to cross before reaching rewards, rather than just crossing and hoping that one day i ll be likely to win rewards.As you said, rng is to hide that there is a mountain to climb, but for me it would help me so much climbing seeing the top and with every step getting one step closer, rather than not knowing how many steps it would take me to reach the top
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    • Depends on the average cost of the first rng car. If it's less than 50k then it's the better one for sure. Yeah, you can end up paying more for the car, but you can equally likely pay less. It's not "bad luck" vs "average". It's "bad luck" vs "good luck", and then there's average at the middle.

      However, most likely you'll end up paying close to the average though.


      Let's turn your question because the end result is the exact same (you just don't realize it).

      When you get paid, the boss says he'll (with you as witness, so he can't cheat) pull a random dice from random.org, 1-100, if it's less than 40, you get no salary that day. Otherwise you get 2k instead of 1k. Unless you're desperate for cash that day and absolutely can't tolerate the risk of waiting for it, choosing the "safe way" is just stupid. I wish this kind of thing was actually something implemented in schools to educate people about risk vs reward and why, under most circumstances, risk is worth it (exceptions are like I said, if you're desperate for cash and cannot afford to not get any salary for a while, just in case it happens).
    • Well it will be the same ON AVERAGE, but i'd rather plan that the 51st day i would go to the work with a car, rather than hoping that "one of these days".


      Also, yep, the example you just gave, makes more sense to go for the rng. BUT you pay 1k to win double with a 60% chance. But let's say, that the option that you choose will exist for a whole year.
      Without rng : 365k
      With rng average : 584k (a profit of 219k, that's more than half your income, an incredible boost)
      Best case scenario : 730k (double your income)
      Worst case scenario : 0 k

      So, what would you choose if the same scenario was to happen for a year ? And what if for a decade ?
      PVP NOT DEAD
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    • Kraxler wrote:





      So you get 32% increased scythe dmg just for 2 out of 8 possible talsiman stats. If you have all the scythe talisman you can still stick with T1 or T2 with base stats
      I saw (if they stack) a pretty much permannent 34% dmg increase of Scythe. If used with the one DoA talisman you can take it to 40%. you can add the 50% chance from Scythe probably on top of that nad to that the normal 16%. So Scythe alone could probably be increased by 88%. I still left some stuff out. This would need 5 options btw. This is only theoretical since for this we need to know if these kind of things stack.
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      EU:
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      Matoi.Ryuko - Kriegertwink - Castanic - Lvl 65 - Yurian
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    • modi3 wrote:

      Well it will be the same ON AVERAGE, but i'd rather plan that the 51st day i would go to the work with a car, rather than hoping that "one of these days".


      Also, yep, the example you just gave, makes more sense to go for the rng. BUT you pay 1k to win double with a 60% chance. But let's say, that the option that you choose will exist for a whole year.
      Without rng : 365k
      With rng average : 584k (a profit of 219k, that's more than half your income, an incredible boost)
      Best case scenario : 730k (double your income)
      Worst case scenario : 0 k

      So, what would you choose if the same scenario was to happen for a year ? And what if for a decade ?
      Either you miscalculated the RNG average or I missed something. (60% chance to win everyday, 365days/year, that's 219 days on average per year that you'll win, therefor your average should be 438k (219*2))
      Borsuc already replied to your question in his example tho, he'll pick the 2k deal everyday for the whole year, the decade and probably the rest of his life if he could (unless he needs the cash right now).
      As he also pointed out, casino are happy to take such deal with 51-52% chance , so you can imagine what everyone should do with a 60% deal, tbh its a no brainer, you gotta thing long term, which most people do not.
    • Casinos have more than 51%, and also casinos do not pay counters or people that they think they cheated somehow. Only way to obtain money is legally, and they derail the cases for many years . Also some online casinos have a ToS that let's them do whatever they please.

      Yeah, it s true that it's 438k instead of 584k which is that the rest of the days you still get 1k. But thing is, nope, i wouldn t risk 100% of my earnings for the rest of my life. What if you so happen to be the unluckiest of the cases ? Also in order to achieve a percentage you have to do multiple "runs" and i don't think that amount is close to 100 or 300 tries..
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    • modi3 wrote:

      Casinos have more than 51%, and also casinos do not pay counters or people that they think they cheated somehow. Only way to obtain money is legally, and they derail the cases for many years . Also some online casinos have a ToS that let's them do whatever they please.
      Obviously they don't pay people who cheat, that would be pointless. I don't know about "online casinos" but you do realize those can be scams right? They can spit out whatever number they want and make you lose. Real (physical) casinos don't need to scam you to win. They win by virtue of math and the law of large numbers.

      modi3 wrote:

      Yeah, it s true that it's 438k instead of 584k which is that the rest of the days you still get 1k. But thing is, nope, i wouldn t risk 100% of my earnings for the rest of my life. What if you so happen to be the unluckiest of the cases ? Also in order to achieve a percentage you have to do multiple "runs" and i don't think that amount is close to 100 or 300 tries..
      Dude, being so paranoid is like asking yourself "what if a meteor falls on my house tomorrow?" you'll go crazy in no time. I mean it is possible, but it's something you take for granted (that it won't). Risks exist in everything in life.

      I mean, this is real life advice not just the game. What you need to do is weight the risks in your favor. Paying triple just to eliminate the risk (that costs 1 times on average, not 3) is ridiculous dude! If you do that in real life, you're one of the reasons the "fat cats" get rich on behalf of the poor. Insurance companies work in a similar way, that's how they make profit.

      Don't forget that the game can shutdown any day. Your "safe" 3 times investment (time, farming, RL money, etc) is not so safe (and because you pay 3 times as much it's more likely to shutdown before you use it, than if you paid once -- it's slim chance, but your assumption that you fail 60% chance 365 times is also absurd lol)
    • Online casinos actually have a cam live feed so it's impossible to feed you fake data.
      Real casinos also don't pay people who count cards. Counting cards is only forbidden in us and not in eu. Therefore casinos that don't pay are forced by the law (after many years to pay). Also there is no way to tell if someone is counting cards, well, you can see his playstyle matching a counter's one but it could be real luck that would grant him that money. Plus when you lose money as a counter, they don't forbid you, only when you win.


      Also, in order to invest, you first have to make sure that if everything fails you'll still be financially independent. Let's say that we do a race between a horse and a turtle. And betting on the horse gives you double the money. Who in their right mind wouldn't sell everything he got, borrow from everyone and place everything on the horse? But if the horse dies mid race, then he will be on great debt. So in real life that your chances are not 99.99% , you can't afford to bet/invest more than your "ass"/pocket can handle.
      Back to the game, i personally would prefer to know that i got a standard amount of miles to walk rather than estimating. And i dislike rng because even when i'm on the winning/lucky side i still think of me being on the losing/unlucky one. For every diamond dropped in PoP, there are 20 more runs that will drop 1 ruby. So yep, when i see diamond dropping, i'm happy for 10-20 seconds and then i realize i'm doomed to low drops for another month. Let's say when you bought pvp gear from vendors. Would you rather waste a small percentage of ks/bc credits and have it drop a random piece of gear or something worthless, OR did you prefer it the way it was ? A fixed amount of ks/bc creds ?

      Also let's see what happens, if you decide to go for that route and your boss says that he will run a program that will decide your extra earnings for the next 40 years

      program 1: (this program has a sleep 10μsec between taking random numbers so it won't be the same all the time)
      Display Spoiler

      At year 0 you gained extra : 69
      At year 1 you gained extra : 67
      At year 2 you gained extra : 75
      At year 3 you gained extra : 75
      At year 4 you gained extra : 75
      At year 5 you gained extra : 73
      At year 6 you gained extra : 67
      At year 7 you gained extra : 81
      At year 8 you gained extra : 69
      At year 9 you gained extra : 63
      At year 10 you gained extra : 77
      At year 11 you gained extra : 73
      At year 12 you gained extra : 59
      At year 13 you gained extra : 79
      At year 14 you gained extra : 71
      At year 15 you gained extra : 69
      At year 16 you gained extra : 71
      At year 17 you gained extra : 75
      At year 18 you gained extra : 77
      At year 19 you gained extra : 75
      At year 20 you gained extra : 59
      At year 21 you gained extra : 75
      At year 22 you gained extra : 67
      At year 23 you gained extra : 61
      At year 24 you gained extra : 77
      At year 25 you gained extra : 65
      At year 26 you gained extra : 73
      At year 27 you gained extra : 67
      At year 28 you gained extra : 71
      At year 29 you gained extra : 67
      At year 30 you gained extra : 79
      At year 31 you gained extra : 65
      At year 32 you gained extra : 71
      At year 33 you gained extra : 85
      At year 34 you gained extra : 73
      At year 35 you gained extra : 71
      At year 36 you gained extra : 75
      At year 37 you gained extra : 75
      At year 38 you gained extra : 79
      At year 39 you gained extra : 57


      Woooooh ! Looks like you made the right choice!
      program2: no sleep between randoms, because why not ?
      Display Spoiler

      At year 0 you gained extra : 365
      At year 1 you gained extra : 365
      At year 2 you gained extra : 365
      At year 3 you gained extra : 365
      At year 4 you gained extra : 365
      At year 5 you gained extra : 365
      At year 6 you gained extra : 365
      At year 7 you gained extra : 355
      At year 8 you gained extra : -365
      At year 9 you gained extra : -365
      At year 10 you gained extra : -365
      At year 11 you gained extra : -365
      At year 12 you gained extra : -365
      At year 13 you gained extra : -365
      At year 14 you gained extra : -365
      At year 15 you gained extra : -365
      At year 16 you gained extra : -365
      At year 17 you gained extra : -365
      At year 18 you gained extra : -365
      At year 19 you gained extra : -365
      At year 20 you gained extra : -365
      At year 21 you gained extra : -365
      At year 22 you gained extra : -365
      At year 23 you gained extra : -365
      At year 24 you gained extra : -365
      At year 25 you gained extra : -365
      At year 26 you gained extra : -365
      At year 27 you gained extra : -365
      At year 28 you gained extra : -365
      At year 29 you gained extra : -365
      At year 30 you gained extra : -365
      At year 31 you gained extra : -365
      At year 32 you gained extra : -365
      At year 33 you gained extra : -365
      At year 34 you gained extra : -365
      At year 35 you gained extra : -365
      At year 36 you gained extra : -365
      At year 37 you gained extra : -365
      At year 38 you gained extra : -365
      At year 39 you gained extra : 295
      At year 40 you gained extra : 365


      Oh boi, looks like you will be working for free.
      Now in a game that some classes go full power, the rest go full crit and the 1st ones crit more often than the 2nd. Well, can you trust the rng ?
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      The post was edited 1 time, last by modi3 ().

    • BhS be like : "Our communities are getting bored of the recycled content, the lack of PvP, the lack if balance between classes... So i think we should really release another way to destroy the non existent balance for the 483483th time."
      ">
    • modi3 wrote:

      Online casinos actually have a cam live feed so it's impossible to feed you fake data.
      Real casinos also don't pay people who count cards. Counting cards is only forbidden in us and not in eu. Therefore casinos that don't pay are forced by the law (after many years to pay). Also there is no way to tell if someone is counting cards, well, you can see his playstyle matching a counter's one but it could be real luck that would grant him that money. Plus when you lose money as a counter, they don't forbid you, only when you win.


      So yep, when i see diamond dropping, i'm happy for 10-20 seconds and then i realize i'm doomed to low drops for another month.
      Despite the camera/live feed, there are been cases where they cheated anyway , pretty easy to find on youtube I assume. Not to mention the tons of thread about having issue withdrawing their money. Which is actually the bigger part of the "scam" in such case.
      Counting cards is barely profitable anymore tho, multiple decks usage + automatic shuffler constantly shuffling the cards, and if its a manual shuffling, they stop dealing with 2-3decks of cards left. Not to mention they could always ask you to leave, as they're allowed to do so.

      Also,that is not how RNG works at all tho. You're not "doomed" at all, you could see another diamond the same day, your chances are the exact same. What people tend to forget is that it has X% drop rate (in this case very low), and therefor its totaly normal for you to not drop 1 diamond every 5runs considering the droprate is probably lower than 1%.
      So its not about "luck", its about long-term. Ofc on a small sample of runs, some people might get more diamonds than other (and therefor ppl will call them lucky), but it'll even out in the long run, tho in this case we're talking about 500k+ runs.
      Would be nice to know the drop rate of diamond in PoP actually, according to my GG data, the droprate there is about 0.3-0.4%, wouldnt be surprised if its half that in PoP.
    • modi3 wrote:

      So in real life that your chances are not 99.99%
      That's 1 horse out of 10,000 that dies mid race, sounds pretty reasonable or less (?) I'm not expert in horses though. People just can't comprehend numbers. Most people think 99% is synonymous to 100%. But it only takes 100 people to try it and one of them will fail on average. That's perfectly normal and not "RNG fvcks you over". I repeat, it's perfectly normal. No emotions = no problems. Even TERA has more than 100 players so 99% is not 100% even "on average".

      No, you don't have cursed luck if you fail with 99%. You're one of those 1 out of 100 which failed. Happens. (and btw I've never said you should invest everything you have into one thing, that's exactly the opposite of what you should do, instead of letting the law of large numbers in your favor, so spread it out over a reasonable amount; failing 99% say, 5 times in a row, is astronomically low, you might as well get struck by lightning or have a heart attack, nothing in life is without risk, not even choosing the "100%" chance thing)

      And btw, randomness has no memory. It doesn't care you won a diamond today. :P
    • well, i know that rng got no memory, what i'm saying is that every time i get the "lucky" drop or being lucky in general, i feel bad because i think of the unlucky end which i will be on it some day .
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    • Think of it another way. There's unlucky, lucky and average. If you're unlucky (below average) you can still end up lucky other time (above average) with equal chance of it happening as the unluck. So it should average out long term. Average is far more common though.

      Most people always think of "unlucky" versus "average". That is, they treat every above-average luck as just "average". It's classic human nature tho; downplay the positives, and make a big deal out of the negatives. :crazy:
    • from 16 tries tier III ---> tier IV talismans I got 2 tier IV ones, and yea stats are random [at test server]
      if it would let you choose what you want(stats) then it may not be that bad, but since it's a step back I don't really want it
    • Astarte wrote:

      from 16 tries tier III ---> tier IV talismans I got 2 tier IV ones, and yea stats are random [at test server]
      if it would let you choose what you want(stats) then it may not be that bad, but since it's a step back I don't really want it
      Even if you can choose you stats it's still ridiculous. That 400k gold just for 4 stats out of 8. And i never payed near to 800k gold just for stats.

      BHS is just insane. T4 Etching were just a test and they saw that people are ready to spend million for just a small boost. If this goes live and nobody care the nxt step ist removal of glypsh and you need to enrgrave empy glyphs with stats which obviously cost millions again.

      Also im not sure but are the talisman bound to the gear > means if you get a new piece of gear you need to get again new talsiman? This would be typical for BHS since they already want us to spent new Etching and Dyads for every small upgrade.

      edit: Lori tried 38 times and only got 2x T4 Talsiman LOL
    • Changes like things makes me wonder of something:

      Developer A:
      Hey,we made up these changes that clearly makes the game worse for players
      Developer B:
      Uhmmmm
      Developer A:
      Maybe we should change something?
      Developer B:
      You stupid?,remember,players play the game,not us,it's not our problem,tralala~

      ...or something like that.
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