Talisman System

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    • Eternyawar wrote:

      BHS, we don't need your RNG talisman system ; just do as you did for talents, lie to us, pretend it's buggy and keep it for your own country, not our problem if you don't achieve to milk your compatriots enough.

      Someone at Bluehole Studio thinks that fun is spelled G-R-I-N-D
      That's typically Korean. They like to grind and Black Desert is even worse.
    • Borsuc wrote:

      Kraxler wrote:

      Funny i could barely equip 1 character with full visionmaker 1 because it took around 200 clears for our static to finish full vm1.

      8 alts equipped could fit to vm8 and 9 where some people enchanted over 6 weapons to +15.

      If you mean equip alts with agnitor set .. well that was nothing special .... you can compare it with obtaining twistshard nowdays
      Or buy quills (regent was free anyway). Not my problem you wanted to "be rich" and hoard your stupid gold.
      If it's for PvP, yeah because Conjunct did not exist for sure (even dealing 2% more damage from the front, armor taking less damage than VM but no reflect or skill, difference was 5% at best, LUL now people think 10% is nothing and still "competitive").

      Like most chinese or cheapo korean f2p run-of-the-mill garbage for a quick buck. TERA's done for in this regard, no hope of it ever having slight bit of AAA quality in it anymore. I mean, this was literally the last attempt (after gear revamp), their intention is clear.K
      Kraxler @ I do agree about the not being able to gear alt, at least not in BiS gear. Once kn20 was introcuded, gearing alt was a joke tho, but then again that was like 7?8? months after vm1 came out, it feels like people always talk about a different "vm1" times, the one I remenber was highly different that the one most people are talking about where u had ES buff + 50% quill drop rate.
      As for your static, "only" 200runs for full vm1 for everyone on your static? that's like extremely lucky, we didnt even have 3 weapon after 200runs. (we never managed to be full vm1 despite having 1k+ run)

      Borsuc@ buying quills during the first 5-6months wasn't a thing tho, literally only group I've heard (I don't even know if they were actually selling it or not), wanted 100k/quills, and you had like a 5% droprate chance to even get it. So again, which "vm1" times are we talking about.. sure buying quills once the droprate was 50% and everyone and their grandmother was duo/trio'ing it was possible, tho after that the designs went up in prices like crazy (or so I heard).

      So yeah starting from kn20 patch, it was quite easy to gear alts, but that was 7months-ish after vm1 came out. Before that, only a few people had 2-3 geared alt.
    • Just when i was slowly getting some hope back about this game, oh well!

      *Opens Guild Wars 2 launcher*

      Oh yeah and btw, someone mentionned that they would probably make a P2W item to prevent stuff from breaking? GameForge is also the publisher for Metin2, which has an enchantment system that can break your gear piece if i'm right, and guess where you can buy the scroll that prevents it from breaking?
      ">
    • We are officially back to LoT times, with no LoT around !


      Seriously, i agree with Kraxler, a new player is doomed since let me tell you my own experience

      1. i had to gather gold in order to get from guardian to frostmetal
      And it's more than 100k gold if you have max ixp, so yep, it takes quite some time (since limited entries for 2 star dungeons and limited vanguard quests daily)..
      Let's say a guardian/twisthard can farm 5k daily, that's around 20+ days..
      2. i had to farm iod like crazy in order to get glyphs.If i only farmed iod, it's 16*12 tokens = 184 which means 9 boxes daily. So 4 days for 36 boxes to be safe.
      3. thank god, getting lvl3 etchings is "easy" BUT it still takes 290 tokens and you earn 36 daily (and if you go mid tier you earn more, but let's say it's 36)
      That s around 8 days.
      4. innerwear. Well, a decent innerwear costs around 20k, so that's 4 days.
      5. Dyads. 5 dyads cost : 10k on box + 3 * 2k * 5 = 40k . For 5 dyads with random stats, and that's with the lowest niveots go for at broker. That's 8 days.
      6. Passive Mounts : Starting from 600k : that's 120 days .
      7. going to stormcry +0 , that might be around 400k, without jewelery ofc. that's 80 days

      So yep, for a new player it takes around to 236 days to reach stormcry+0 with a crit mount IF said person farms 5k gold daily.
      So no wonder that tera can't keep new players.
      PVP NOT DEAD
      just switched place, forums and global is where pvp action exists

      The post was edited 1 time, last by modi3 ().

    • modi3 wrote:

      We are officially back to LoT times, with no LoT around !


      Seriously, i agree with Kraxler, a new player is doomed since let me tell you my own experience

      1. i had to gather gold in order to get from guardian to frostmetal
      And it's more than 100k gold if you have max ixp, so yep, it takes quite some time (since limited entries for 2 star dungeons and limited vanguard quests daily)..
      Let's say a guardian/twisthard can farm 5k daily, that's around 20+ days..
      2. i had to farm iod like crazy in order to get glyphs.If i only farmed iod, it's 16*12 tokens = 184 which means 9 boxes daily. So 4 days for 36 boxes to be safe.
      3. thank god, getting lvl3 etchings is "easy" BUT it still takes 290 tokens and you earn 36 daily (and if you go mid tier you earn more, but let's say it's 36)
      That s around 8 days.
      4. innerwear. Well, a decent innerwear costs around 20k, so that's 4 days.
      5. Dyads. 5 dyads cost : 10k on box + 3 * 2k * 5 = 40k . For 5 dyads with random stats, and that's with the lowest niveots go for at broker. That's 8 days.
      6. Passive Mounts : Starting from 600k : that's 120 days .
      7. going to stormcry +0 , that might be around 400k, without jewelery ofc. that's 80 days

      So yep, for a new player it takes around to 236 days to reach stormcry+0 with a crit mount IF said person farms 5k gold daily.
      So no wonder that tera can't keep new players.
      Not that I disagree with your first sentence but your numbers seems a bit off, probably bcuz you forgot some essential stuff, such as credits+getting more profit as you progress,I'm not sure if your numbers includes TC (tho I seem to remenber reading that you canceled your TC, so I'm assuming you did take it into account).
      Anyway GGx2+PoPx4+RGx4+IoDx8 low should already yield you 6k, assuming you sell whatever you get from GG (which I value at 800g/run (based on the data I collected (3k runs)), tho I used a much lower figure for this example (about half)). You'll also get some credits, 960credits to be exact (280PoP, 280 RG, 400IoD), which is equal to another 5k (1500credits = 8k). So we're already at 10k/day, note that I didn't mention the extra loot (as little as it may be), from RG+PoP+IoD enchanting box so we could be looking at 11-12k/day.
      I didnt mention guardian mission because I guess it wasnt there yet when you geared, but thats another 10k. So yeah we're now at 20k/day. Bringing it down to 59 days, probably less, as you get more gold & credits for the medium/higher IoD & 3+star dungeons.

      The first part shouldnt take too long even for a guardian geared player, idk about the x40 guardian mission tho.

      Could also include banyakas chest + the x20 keys, that's another 100-150k/30days so an extra 4k/day on average.


      One could argue that the grind is the reason Tera cant keep player, but then again BDO seems to do just fine (or at least from what I've heard or seen on twitch), yet the grind is like 10 times worse. So idk, maybe its a whole, the community, the content, idk
    • sadly there aren't every 2months events where u get high tier for lvling up / free... or rootstock, where u can make a p. decent additional amount on gold if needed...

      tbh: 2 friends started with 0 eq, new chars, had BiS in ~35days with tc only (at least weapon sc+9,rest sc+4 or sth, 2nd best innerwear - 1.5er dragons u get from the loginbonus at the weekend so it doesn't count...) so i don't rly think this is too much if you start playing a game, to be able to run / farm all the existing dungeons/content....
      now imagine they were genius at the brokergame and would use the full endcontent - max 20. days for the same progress... pretty hard grind... damn... hard system...


      BTT: gimme that talisman, i need to spent my money!
    • Mehonix/Faphuntard wrote:



      tbh: 2 friends started with 0 eq, new chars, had BiS in ~35days with tc only (at least weapon sc+9,rest sc+4 or sth, 2nd best innerwear - 1.5er dragons u get from the loginbonus at the weekend so it doesn't count...)
      And you gave them 0 help?
      They ran shit via LFG without knowing anyone(also as rookies kek)?
      Sorry boi its impossible.
      And if you say they farmed it with only one char then i won;t belive it at all.
    • yes, they did. and nope - i didn't help once, because i didn't knew them - just ran like 10 times tr nm with them and twice rk em^^

      but there you see again - stop complaining / crying and start playing - quality differences are given. so improve or leave game lul

      btw: ofc they started at manahan event so they started high+0. w.o. it wouldve taken like 10days longer to reach that point.
    • Well you can't count manahan with double gear exp, cheap crafting also double drop and Shattered Fleet Kaias Buff abuse (Do Boss 1 and 2 and reset it again to get 32 Silver Talent and 28 Gold talent after 4 runs). Also Glyphs were basicly for free. And grinding glyphs is just pain with one character (you need 6 days of High IoD Bams to buy one glyph without RNG). Also free forstmetal gear and free diamond + 1000VG credits (elinus tears) every 1,5 hour for playing reaper and delete after reaching 65

      Without manahan they would take waaay longer. Not only "10 days" longer. be realistic. You need 150k Gold just for the 2 most important recipes to enchant.
    • 35 Days to get Top+9 Weapon from 0 resources? Sounds like the greatest superpower on earth was used: Money!
      "The black dress was fringed by countless laces and frills. These outlines of her were enfolded by metallic protectors on the back of her hands and a rustic tasset. Her looks reminded one of the ceremonial robes of medieval knights—an odd mixture that could be called neither dress nor armour. And finally, where normally there might have been a ribbon, she was wearing an old, metallic chest."
    • jinh wrote:

      modi3 wrote:

      We are officially back to LoT times, with no LoT around !


      Seriously, i agree with Kraxler, a new player is doomed since let me tell you my own experience

      1. i had to gather gold in order to get from guardian to frostmetal
      And it's more than 100k gold if you have max ixp, so yep, it takes quite some time (since limited entries for 2 star dungeons and limited vanguard quests daily)..
      Let's say a guardian/twisthard can farm 5k daily, that's around 20+ days..
      2. i had to farm iod like crazy in order to get glyphs.If i only farmed iod, it's 16*12 tokens = 184 which means 9 boxes daily. So 4 days for 36 boxes to be safe.
      3. thank god, getting lvl3 etchings is "easy" BUT it still takes 290 tokens and you earn 36 daily (and if you go mid tier you earn more, but let's say it's 36)
      That s around 8 days.
      4. innerwear. Well, a decent innerwear costs around 20k, so that's 4 days.
      5. Dyads. 5 dyads cost : 10k on box + 3 * 2k * 5 = 40k . For 5 dyads with random stats, and that's with the lowest niveots go for at broker. That's 8 days.
      6. Passive Mounts : Starting from 600k : that's 120 days .
      7. going to stormcry +0 , that might be around 400k, without jewelery ofc. that's 80 days

      So yep, for a new player it takes around to 236 days to reach stormcry+0 with a crit mount IF said person farms 5k gold daily.
      So no wonder that tera can't keep new players.
      Not that I disagree with your first sentence but your numbers seems a bit off, probably bcuz you forgot some essential stuff, such as credits+getting more profit as you progress,I'm not sure if your numbers includes TC (tho I seem to remenber reading that you canceled your TC, so I'm assuming you did take it into account).Anyway GGx2+PoPx4+RGx4+IoDx8 low should already yield you 6k, assuming you sell whatever you get from GG (which I value at 800g/run (based on the data I collected (3k runs)), tho I used a much lower figure for this example (about half)). You'll also get some credits, 960credits to be exact (280PoP, 280 RG, 400IoD), which is equal to another 5k (1500credits = 8k). So we're already at 10k/day, note that I didn't mention the extra loot (as little as it may be), from RG+PoP+IoD enchanting box so we could be looking at 11-12k/day.
      I didnt mention guardian mission because I guess it wasnt there yet when you geared, but thats another 10k. So yeah we're now at 20k/day. Bringing it down to 59 days, probably less, as you get more gold & credits for the medium/higher IoD & 3+star dungeons.

      The first part shouldnt take too long even for a guardian geared player, idk about the x40 guardian mission tho.

      Could also include banyakas chest + the x20 keys, that's another 100-150k/30days so an extra 4k/day on average.


      One could argue that the grind is the reason Tera cant keep player, but then again BDO seems to do just fine (or at least from what I've heard or seen on twitch), yet the grind is like 10 times worse. So idk, maybe its a whole, the community, the content, idk
      Well that's true, i didn't take neither vg credits or production points(which are the ones generating the most gold in this game). I also didn't take tc into account, because most people i'd like to believe, will first play a game before deciding of getting a subscription.
      But let's assume that you get 10k/daily. For 1m+, you still need 100 days.
      If you get 20k/daily. You still need 50 days.
      But imagine "working" 5 hours daily in tera for 100 days just so that you can get to be at the beggining of endgame..

      Also i don't know anything around bdo, i didn't go into it when i heard that "there is no lvl (or gear?) cap", but what tera suffers from is something that also a moba suffered as well.
      HoN was a moba that had 2-2.5 times the speed that Dota has. And every game was a 50+ min farmfest that if you lost or won would be determined into a 5-15 sec battle. So if games are 99% farm and 1% fun,then it makes sense that people stop feeling like giving their 99% hard-boring work for 1% of fun. If games are supposed to be work, then i'm better doing the lowest pay work out there, at least if i spend 1000 hours in a game for 10 hours of fun, if i spend 1000 hours in a 2euro/hour job i would have myself 2.000 euros which would be able to generate more than 10 hours of fun.

      3-4 years ago, the only farm i ever did, was spamming bgs. The rate was the slowest there is out there, but for me i was already in the endgame
      PVP NOT DEAD
      just switched place, forums and global is where pvp action exists
    • Kraxler wrote:

      Guardian Mission with guardian or twistshard is pure cancer. You could rather create reapers and level them to65. Give more gold and around 4vg credits if they buy reputation buff
      While true that its cancer, its still something a new player can do. I didn't mention alt, because people get salty when you do so, as everything needs to be done with ONE character, but yeah as you said simply creating a reaper would yield quite a decent amount of gold (I believe around 5-10k gold + 3.6k credits iirc? (thats another 20k) so we're talking 30k/reaper created), and now you can also use said alt to do GG/PoP/IoD etc, doubling your gold income per day. Goes without saying that alt = more gold, but it also means playing something you might not want to and spending more time ingame.

      modi3 wrote:

      Well that's true, i didn't take neither vg credits or production points(which are the ones generating the most gold in this game). I also didn't take tc into account, because most people i'd like to believe, will first play a game before deciding of getting a subscription.But let's assume that you get 10k/daily. For 1m+, you still need 100 days.
      If you get 20k/daily. You still need 50 days.
      But imagine "working" 5 hours daily in tera for 100 days just so that you can get to be at the beggining of endgame..

      3-4 years ago, the only farm i ever did, was spamming bgs. The rate was the slowest there is out there, but for me i was already in the endgame
      (I'm not saying its in a good state btw, just fixing the numbers)

      5 hours isn't correct tho, it might be at the start, when you have guardian gear and you decide to do x40 guardian mission, but after a few day you'll have frost weap, and it'll be much faster. I believe GG, PoP, IoD & RG shouldnt take more than 2 hours with guardian gear, and that alone should get you enough gold to upgrade to frost withing a few day.

      Also I'm not sure if the permanent crit mount is actually necessary as you get x2 4days for free every week end. (Not to mention the comet which you can get star trace for and sell them for 1k/each, I believe you can get up to 7 Star Trace/week end, so that's another 7k)

      So based on your "end-game" calculation, you'd need 1.2M to reach end-game, that include a 600k mount, which you can remove as you get free ones every week end, so that's 600k, 25k/day. We're now at 24days to reach endgame, that if you don't change your gameplay and run the very basic stuff anyone can run with guardian. Throw in some alt, crafting and whatnot, surely it could be much lower.

      Ofc it will always be sh1t compared to MCHM+LoT times as you had no limitations. Then again, pretty sure it took me more than 25day to even get & enchant (yeah people werent instantly +12'ing + perfect stat back then, despite MWA & Spellbind being sold at the merchant for 20-30gold/ea) my first BiS item 4-5years ago.
    • Since any constructive post made on the EME forums is deleted because its constructive, I'm posting this here.

      TL;DR: Keep the gear rolls on the gear as it has been for years, and use Talismans to introduce a wider range of class specific effects.

      ====

      I would like to make a proposal to change the Talismans to make it more acceptable to current players and easier on new players. But first we need an understanding of how it works. My understanding of the gear rolling system is as follows:

      Before Talismans:
      • Gear lines can be freely chosen when a piece of gear is first obtained
      • Gear lines can be changed at a cost of semi enigmatic scrolls which are quite accessible
      • You can choose one class specific skill line on the chest piece
      Talismans as proposed:
      • Gear lines on the gear are fixed. Everyone gets the same thing
      • The customisation of the entire system is moved to Talismans
      • Getting the rolls you want completely depends on RNG drops of Talismans from dungeons
      • Less geared players get less rolls available to them than before the Talismans update
      • Each Talisman, in addition to the traditional gear roll, can get an addition class specific roll once enchanted above a certain tier.
      The two big points that everyone seems to be discontent about are that 1) you would have to grind away for a gear setup that you already have and have to fight RNG to potentially never get it; and 2) it makes the entire gearing process harder for newer players, a backwards step from what the whole point of the current gearing system is supposed to do.

      The only actually new thing that Talismans brings to the game mechanics is the ability to mix and match multiple class specific skill lines. So, why not instead:
      • Keep the gear roll system as it had been for years. It works, and it's friendly to newer players as it is and you're not pissing off players by making them grind for something they already have
      • Remove the class specific line from the Chest Piece
      • Use Talismans to allow players to use more than one class specific skill line.
    • well, yes, you can skip the crit mount(as long as the event keeps running)

      rg is completely random, you can get in with good people and be done in 6mins/run or 20+ (assuming you have a non-broken class without glyphs and guardian/twistshard)

      Also PoP, is not possible with some classes in guardian/twishard.
      For example : Sorc,Archer,Ninja,Reaper, are classes that might be in need of pots while there, since Sorc and Reaper are locked in place to execute rotations(and have low dmg output ).
      And since you don't get the vanguard quest with guardian/twishard i don't feel like going there with these classes.
      A lot of times when going into pop with sorc+reaper(frostmetal+0), i end with 1/3 of my hp...

      gg is tc only (ofc you can waste 200 vgcredits to get there, but imo it's not worth it when niveots costs 400 and go for 2k+)

      Also new players got no use for production points, i mean recipes cost 150k. If you invest without tc, it's gonna take months before it starts creating a profit. And creating emeralds is not worth it if you place them at broker without tc.

      In LoT days, the biggest thing was stats.. A lot of people, myself included, just used mes, no spellbinds, since eu didn't have them for free. I was quite happy that this changed, but oh well, they change it again.
      Back then, it might take you 300 mes to mw and around 150 to get stats. That translated into 450 * 300 gold each mes and 50 gold each identification scroll = 150k . But back then you could "no sleep" your way to 150k. Nowdays you have to farm a little each day till you reach 150k. Now with these random numbers, and since it will be at the start of the patch, i don't know how much they are gonna cost. For example when etchings were first introduced, a single etching would go for 500k+. BUT etching was something extra, it wasn't in the form of "Well, we removed something that you were getting for free, now pay 500k to get it back". It's like the remove the crits from mounts, each time they introduce new mounts ..
      With each patch seems that tera requires even more grind. While it's the grind that drives people away.

      What this talisman system seems to me : get dyads using only crystal boxes that would go for 2k each...Seriously, if we get the talisman system in a version that doesn't have the talent, we will be even more underpowered.
      PVP NOT DEAD
      just switched place, forums and global is where pvp action exists