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    • Misery +12 converts to mid tier +0
      High tier +0 is somewhat a mix of former older VM set +12~+15
      Comparing Guile with High +0 is kinda stupid.
      The only time when u were able to go for 4-star dungeon was when guile was current mid tier gear, last patch it was low tier. Not enough itemlvl for 4-star. Not_even_close.
    • One thing i agree with Seio is that getting to 439 ilvl for 4-star dungeon is indeed taking longer compared to before (full mid-tier has always been enough for 4-stars), but 1-2 month is highly exaggerated. I would say one could do it very casually within one week.
    • Noyn wrote:

      The only time when u were able to go for 4-star dungeon was when guile was current mid tier gear, last patch it was low tier. Not enough itemlvl for 4-star. Not_even_close.
      Well this is exactly what I asked him, but according to him, it was enough.

      Kapt wrote:

      One thing i agree with Seio is that getting to 439 ilvl for 4-star dungeon is indeed taking longer compared to before (full mid-tier has always been enough for 4-stars), but 1-2 month is highly exaggerated. I would say one could do it very casually within one week.
      Wait what? Its too long, yet doable very casually within one week?

      Beside I feel like getting full +12 misery (last patch mid-tier), properly rolled, was much harder than getting high-tier +0. (talking from a fresh account PoV).
    • With mid-tier i mean the starter gear you get from the red quest.

      Full guile was already more than enough ilvl for 4 stars and it cost next to nothing.

      Misery weapon + belt and the rest in guile was enough for 5 star HM. That is the kinds of gear i always put my healers in.

      I didn't say it is too long, just definitely longer than the old system for 4-star dungeon ilvl.
    • Kapt wrote:

      Full guile was already more than enough ilvl for 4 stars and it cost next to nothing.
      Yes, that's true. Guile was enough for 4 stars because of the head slot gear. I never had more than a guile +12 on most of my characters and they received the vanguard quests.

      It felt like they didn't take Circlets/Diadems into account and that was a huge boost to ilvl. Now they barely give any ilvl even if they are upgraded.
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    • jinh wrote:

      High-tier +7 is what Misery +12 was? In term of what? Are we talking damage wise or what it converts to? Do you have the link to said chart ?
      docs.google.com/document/d/1sT…dv0hXMqMmUlkhdM8/preview# There you go with the chart, it's also here essentialmana.com/gear-revamp-guide/

      Gear changes, and now lower tier gear also has 5 lines, possibly because classes are starting to rely more and more on it. To assume you're in tutorial mode until you get VM is absurd, you get High-tier+0 from doing tutorial level dungeons (2/3-star), it's difficult to die in them, even if you try (shit that took 1/3rd of your HP previous patch takes like 1/10th of your HP now)... VM is something you get from somewhat challenging dungeons, which you grind for with lesser gear (unless you reached +15 once).



      Glacial` wrote:

      You're complaining about the lack of (V)SES which was also debunked, then you try to "challenge" players into something that is completely irrelevant to your (V)SES problem. I can't take you seriously.

      You're either experimenting or keep upgrading your set.

      The gear can be enchanted within a week max (to Guardian +6 or upgraded to Twistsomething +0). It has a 100% chance of upgrade and you don't need a lot of materials. Dougal also gives a bunch if you do his quests. Desperate ppl can also spend 40/100 Elleon tokens for that Master Enchanter thing, dismantle high end resources for Meta Emblem and buy low level materials from it.
      Jewelry can wait. Upgraded benefits are just slightly better. Unless you're a maximalist and you want to EXPERIMENT with things.

      Everything else you say is just for the sake of arguing over already answered things by others.

      EDIT: Misery is Mid+0 idk why you two say it's high+0. A misery+12 transforms into Twist+0.
      I pointed out what's wrong with this patch, and there's a lot. I've only done 2 GGs, but I didn't get any VSES, and I really only got complete garbage from it.

      You seem to have an attitude problem, I'm not gonna continue talking to you. You believe these dumb people have "answers", even though they're completely oblivious to the fact that Guile+12 was enough for 4-star dungeons, by a couple of ilvl margin.
      Yet, high tier+0 isn't enough for 4-star dungeons, it requires your accessories to be on the same tier as well.
    • Seio wrote:

      jinh wrote:

      High-tier +7 is what Misery +12 was? In term of what? Are we talking damage wise or what it converts to? Do you have the link to said chart ?
      docs.google.com/document/d/1sT…dv0hXMqMmUlkhdM8/preview# There you go with the chart, it's also here essentialmana.com/gear-revamp-guide/
      Gear changes, and now lower tier gear also has 5 lines, possibly because classes are starting to rely more and more on it. To assume you're in tutorial mode until you get VM is absurd, you get High-tier+0 from doing tutorial level dungeons (2/3-star), it's difficult to die in them, even if you try (shit that took 1/3rd of your HP previous patch takes like 1/10th of your HP now)... VM is something you get from somewhat challenging dungeons, which you grind for with lesser gear (unless you reached +15 once).
      Well you linked a whole document, a well known one even, and nowhere in it it says that "Misery +12 = High Tier +7" , nor that "Guile +12 = High Tier +0". And if it does, link me said part please. (Again, I do agree that ILVL wise +12 guile last patch = high tier +0 current patch, but def not dmg/gear wise).

      And about the reroll-able stats, you're wrong

      Guardian (low-tier) = 4 rerollable on weapon & armor , no 3% dmg on gloves
      Twistshard (mid-tier) = 4 rerollable on weapon & armor , no 3% dmg on gloves
      Frostmetal (high-tier) = 5 rerollable on weapon & armor + 3% dmg on gloves (just like VM was)
      Stormcry (top-tier) = 5 rerollable on weapon & armor + 3% dmg on gloves (just like VM was)


      As for the second part of your post, as I already stated the ilvl system is flawed. Kapt said it perfectly aswell.
      Only thing I could possibly agree on is that ilvl 439 is too high for 4stars dungeon.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by jinh ().

    • jinh wrote:

      Seio wrote:

      jinh wrote:

      High-tier +7 is what Misery +12 was? In term of what? Are we talking damage wise or what it converts to? Do you have the link to said chart ?
      docs.google.com/document/d/1sT…dv0hXMqMmUlkhdM8/preview# There you go with the chart, it's also here essentialmana.com/gear-revamp-guide/Gear changes, and now lower tier gear also has 5 lines, possibly because classes are starting to rely more and more on it. To assume you're in tutorial mode until you get VM is absurd, you get High-tier+0 from doing tutorial level dungeons (2/3-star), it's difficult to die in them, even if you try (shit that took 1/3rd of your HP previous patch takes like 1/10th of your HP now)... VM is something you get from somewhat challenging dungeons, which you grind for with lesser gear (unless you reached +15 once).
      Well you linked a whole document, a well known one even, and nowhere in it it says that "Misery +12 = High Tier +7" , nor that "Guile +12 = High Tier +0". And if it does, link me said part please. (Again, I do agree that ILVL wise +12 guile last patch = high tier +0 current patch, but def not dmg/gear wise).
      And about the reroll-able stats, you're wrong

      Guardian (low-tier) = 4 rerollable on weapon & armor , no 3% dmg on gloves
      Twistshard (mid-tier) = 4 rerollable on weapon & armor , no 3% dmg on gloves
      Frostmetal (high-tier) = 5 rerollable on weapon & armor + 3% dmg on gloves (just like VM was)
      Stormcry (top-tier) = 5 rerollable on weapon & armor + 3% dmg on gloves (just like VM was)


      As for the second part of your post, as I already stated the ilvl system is flawed. Kapt said it perfectly aswell.
      Only thing I could possibly agree on is that ilvl 439 is too high for 4stars dungeon.
      Which is why you should've known about it.


      I believe this is their measure without taking into account for rollable lines, or something like that.
      We had Idoneal 2.0 once, and then Fuliminate as low tier, until it went back to idoneal 2.0 as low tier. Previous gear patch (or the one before filler patch) was Idoneal = low tier, Guile = mid tier, Misery = high tier, Deathwrack = Top tier.
    • This is just to illustrate the linear progression with the new system compared with the strangely overlapping *what + XY gear is better than the gear before*.
      Not actual performance between new and old gear sets.

      For actual math click here

      Source
    • I kinda knew you'd link these 2 chart and I'm afraid you misread/misunderstood them.
      They're just showing you how the gear progression was/is in both patches, they've nothing to do with each other lol.



      Seio wrote:

      We had Idoneal 2.0 once, and then Fuliminate as low tier, until it went back to idoneal 2.0 as low tier. Previous gear patch (or the one before filler patch) was Idoneal = low tier, Guile = mid tier, Misery = high tier, Deathwrack = Top tier.
      I never considered guile "mid-tier"(or well, I did,when misery wasnt out, during VM8 patch) nor Misery "high-tier", to me Guile (previous patch), became low-tier (ez MW/ez enchant), the midtier was misery, and high tier was VM. Everyone I know and I've seen talk ingame about gear used such system.
    • Noyn wrote:

      This is just to illustrate the linear progression with the new system compared with the strangely overlapping *what + XY gear is better than the gear before*.
      Not actual performance between new and old gear sets.

      For actual math click here

      Source
      According to that guile +12 is Misery +8... But that doesn't look right at all, since the +value for enchanting is linear.

      You cannot compare total attack modifier between the weapons, or even their damage compared to one another.


      I kinda knew you'd link these 2 chart and I'm afraid you misread/misunderstood them.

      jinh wrote:

      They're just showing you how the gear progression was/is in both patches, they've nothing to do with each other lol.
      Then they wouldn't line up as well as they do. They wouldn't at all illustrate it like that if they didn't draw a comparison between the gears. It's pretty clear they're pointing out that mid-tier+9/high-tier+0 is guile+12.
    • Why wouldnt they lol ? They're comparing old & new system, not the gear itself. So it makes total sense. If they were related, they'd be on the same chart, not on 2 different one...Thus it should be pretty clear what both charts are made for.
      There's literally a Gear Comparison chart posted twice in the document,why don't you look it up? I mean its even called "Gear Comparison chart".

      Anyway you seem to be quite a stubborn person (even when evidecen is shown ) so I guess I just won't bother anymore. I probably should've stopped reading after "12 SES is a lot" (to get perfect stat xdd lul)
    • Why does it seem wrong? Guile +12 too strong compared to Misery +8? or too weak?
      I mean that was the issue with the old system. Just because u had the next tier didnt mean u had better stats.
      The picture is not a comparison of flat atk modifier with enchanting bonus, it takes into account that for the old system u had to reach certain lvls to unlock stats.
      The atk modifier grows in a linear manner. The actual effect (displayed) has gaps / jumps because u unlock a stat which is increasing the dmg more than the additional enchanting modifier.
      And those jumps dont exist anymore. Every set has its boni right from +0. Well, if you ignore the additional stats on Top Tier.

      Im afraid but this graph pretty much shows me what i experienced with older patches since this game is out. Always a headache to make sure your new gear is better than your old set.
    • Noyn wrote:

      Why does it seem wrong? Guile +12 too strong compared to Misery +8? or too weak?
      I mean that was the issue with the old system. Just because u had the next tier didnt mean u had better stats.
      The picture is not a comparison of flat atk modifier with enchanting bonus, it takes into account that for the old system u had to reach certain lvls to unlock stats.
      The atk modifier grows in a linear manner. The actual effect (displayed) has gaps / jumps because u unlock a stat which is increasing the dmg more than the additional enchanting modifier.
      And those jumps dont exist anymore. Every set has its boni right from +0. Well, if you ignore the additional stats on Top Tier.

      Im afraid but this graph pretty much shows me what i experienced with older patches since this game is out. Always a headache to make sure your new gear is better than your old set.
      Attack modifer on enchant is linear, there's no complex algorhythim which slows down and speeds up the modifier. They've taken into rollable lines, the gear revamp chart does not.


      Why wouldnt they lol ? They're comparing old & new system, not the gear itself. So it makes total sense. If they were related, they'd be on the same chart, not on 2 different one...Thus it should be pretty clear what both charts are made for.

      jinh wrote:

      There's literally a Gear Comparison chart posted twice in the document,why don't you look it up? I mean its even called "Gear Comparison chart".

      Anyway you seem to be quite a stubborn person (even when evidecen is shown ) so I guess I just won't bother anymore. I probably should've stopped reading after "12 SES is a lot" (to get perfect stat xdd lul)
      I'm stubborn? You idiots continue to claim High-tier+0 is Misery+12... Despite the fact that you can't even get into 4-star dugeons with hight-tier+0, while you could do that already in guile+12.

      You are stubborn, and you've been shown absolute proof that high-tier+0 is Guile+12. Do you think GF would be such idiots to give everyone a misery+12 equivalent for their next patch? They have never done that, it's always been giving out something that's going to be useless after the patch.
    • So you made long term assumptions based on 2 Ghillieglades.

      Seio wrote:

      You seem to have an attitude problem, I'm not gonna continue talking to you.

      If that's how you argue over facts, good riddance. :rolleyes:

      Look around in your own yard first before you start badmouthing others as well. For me it just seems everyone else is wrong and only you are right.
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      ^^^ Click to open the threads vvv
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    • Seio wrote:

      I'm stubborn? You idiots continue to claim High-tier+0 is Misery+12... Despite the fact that you can't even get into 4-star dugeons with hight-tier+0, while you could do that already in guile+12.
      You are stubborn, and you've been shown absolute proof that high-tier+0 is Guile+12. Do you think GF would be such idiots to give everyone a misery+12 equivalent for their next patch? They have never done that, it's always been giving out something that's going to be useless after the patch.
      "You idiots" , nice nice.

      So many wrong/made up statement in your post,

      No where in any of your post you've shown that GUILE +12 = HIGH TIER +0, you're just claiming it is, based on a document you apparently cannot read.
      Btw no one here said that Misery +12 = High tier +0 but MID TIER +0. Which is literally what the GEAR COMPARISON CHART shows.
      FYI high-tier +0 = +14 ambush/+12 deathwrack

      What absolute proof ? if you're talking about your 2 charts you linked, go and ask Loriri on any Tera discord and he'll tell you that you're wrong (hint: people asked 3months ago already), so yeah, wrong,just like you were with the 5 rerollable stats on low tier gear lol

      edit : lol I didnt even notice, but assuming your view of the chart would be right, it'd mean that +15 VM9 is EQUAL to TOP TIER +9. yes, that makes a lot of sense, right? clearly you're not intrepting anything wrong here.
    • Well, Guile and Ideonal are like the same items in this system, making the mid Tier gear the misery equivalent, as you have to run some dungeons to get that at +12, if you dont intend on spending on MWA, just like you need those dungeon amounts for the enchanting of mid tier. The full high tier gear and the first few upgrades on top tier can be seen similar to the VM gears 8/9, requiring you to also run the higher tiered dungeons and the last upgrades of Top Tier kinda equal that Oblit gear, as you need Wondrous holy water (forgot english name) from Harrowhold, similar to the need of Oblit essences for upgrading Deathwrack you had to run harrowhold for.

      Those charts dont have a gear name on it for a reason. Instead it only tells us the tier the gear is/was in. That was to give us an image of how the old system was and the new is.
    • Seio wrote:


      Yet, high tier+0 isn't enough for 4-star dungeons, it requires your accessories to be on the same tier as well.
      Yeah i have a picture for you about that.
      Click for pic

      Chest, Boots, Gloves and Weapon High Tier +0
      Belt Mid Tier
      Diadem Mid Tier
      Brooch High Tier (i guess...?)
      Blue Inner
      Full Mid Tier Jewelry Set.

      Yeah i can totally see how i need FULL High Tier +0 AND accessories to be able to join 4-star content.

      This topic is done for me with this. So much bulls*it on 2 pages already. Shiro is gonna warn me tomorrow X(
    • Shiro pls be nice.
      Anyway, on topic, and coming from the famous Loriri himself (you know, the one who made the famous charts you cannot understand (hopefully you dont call him an idiot that continue to argue even tho he's shown "ASBOLUTE" proof that guile+12=hightier +0 lul)) :