Current Server Issues Discussion Thread

    • Aeq wrote:

      Why should it actually be closed?

      Aeq wrote:

      Of course, the discussion got derailed into pros and cons about the Pserver and normally someone goes for the close, but I really don't see a proper reason to do so.
      Speaking about and in this way advertising an illegal private server who take away players (and money) from official server sounds enough for me to close the thread or at least delete the posts. Its obviously against the tos.

      Mods are rly patient these days. ^^

      No problem with that, was interesting to read. I only was curious why they don't act.
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    • @Borsuc:

      Aeq wrote:

      Why should it actually be closed?
      Of course, the discussion got derailed into pros and cons about Pservers and normally someone goes for the close, but I really don't see a proper reason to do so.
      Better now? In any case, even if you didn't (you were right though, it was Cutesu who started taliking about that pserver) the point still stays.
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    • Borsuc wrote:

      Well I was referring to Mxyzptlk saying about "advertising the private server"
      We running in circles. I never mentioned your comment nor was it my intention to refer to it. I only made a general statement about why mods don't close the topic based on the conversation about private server. :thumbsup:

      Lets break the circle of 19046 posts and look if anyone else has something to say. :P
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    • Borsuc wrote:

      ...so that's not a bad profit, though it's illegally obtained. (illegal because they are using someone else's work for their own gain without permission, even though they put some effort into the pserver and think they deserve the money, it's still illegal)
      That's why they call such payments "donations". Keeps the legal sharks off their backs.

      [edit]

      Mxyzptlk wrote:

      illegal private server
      It's only illegal if we consider the ToS of the game as laws. Luckily one doesn't need to agree with the ToS in order to operate a private server. One doesn't even have to agree with the ToS in order to use the client software. Ultimately it's just a program and programs can and do get reverse engineered then altered (meaning you can root that ToS part out and pretend it doesn't exist). Also DMCA can't touch anything when it comes to MMO clients since technically these are given to the end user for free, meaning publishers can't even prove that we used said client or a modded version of it to play on a private server, not to mention implementing any sort of metrics to spy on where we send traffic is grounds for a lawsuit (software rigged to work as spyware).
      As for the people that run these private servers - running a server isn't illegal. The server itself is also just a piece of software. Totally not it's fault that it acts based on whatever traffic gets thrown at it, nor it's fault that this traffic comes from a cracked MMO game client. Who cracked it will never be known, so the people with the suits and ties won't have anybody to point a finger at. NCSoft have been combating the private server "sector" for over a decade and ultimately haven't gotten anywhere with it. Take into account that they're very rich. If they can't throw money at the problem and make it disappear, you can be absolutely certain there's no solution to said problem.
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      The post was edited 1 time, last by Hr1s7i ().

    • Hr1s7i wrote:

      Also DMCA can't touch anything when it comes to MMO clients since technically these are given to the end user for free, meaning publishers can't even prove that we used said client or a modded version of it to play on a private server, not to mention implementing any sort of metrics to spy on where we send traffic is grounds for a lawsuit (software rigged to work as spyware).
      With publishers it's true, they can't do anything. GF and EnMasse just can't handle it unless these private servers are using their names (impersonating).

      But having a Tera server without BHS's consent is technically illegal and can be considered "theft" and DMCA can remove it if BHS doesn't have any legal terms with these hosts. And most likely they won't have that.

      And the other part is true if you think about it to a certain degree. It's like saying "having a computer isn't illegal" BUT downloading and installing a pirated copy of Windows is. Having a firearm is also not illegal in certain US countries but that doesn't mean you can do anything with them. Saying "well the server is legal, what, it's just (excuse_about_a_stolen_content_on_the_server)" won't make it justified. You can wash your hands and try to find loopholes but it's still a stolen content that is running on their server - and if they are the owners then they are responsible for its contents.

      BHS wrote:

      You agree to only use the Game Software, or any part of it, in a manner that is consistent with this License and you SHALL NOT:
      • (c) use the Game Software, or permit use of the Game Software, in a network, multi-user arrangement or remote access arrangement, including any online use, except as otherwise explicitly permitted by Bluehole in writing;
      • (e) sell, rent, lease, license, distribute, upload to any Internet server or web site, or otherwise transfer any portion of this Game Software or any copies without the express prior written consent of Bluehole.


      Solution is to remove said stolen contents. But if they can host it once they can do it again. :c I remember RuneScape used to have a lot of these when a major patch came that wasn't well received like graphics update or the EoC. I haven't looked at the game's private servers but I assume with the introduction of the old legacy servers they handled the situation. And now we're back at "if BHS/EnMasse/GameForge could host a server like this for themselves then ..." .
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    • Hr1s7i wrote:

      That's why they call such payments "donations". Keeps the legal sharks off their backs.
      I'm pretty sure that both are illegal, it's just that without them being "donations" makes it a criminal offense while the latter is just a normal (civil) offense. Because making money/profiting off someone else's property is a criminal offense in many countries, totally different thing than just using the property "for free" (which is what the donations probably try to circumvent, I'm not a lawyer so w/e).

      Pservers get away with it since most companies don't find it worth it to shut them down cause it costs money for the trial and all that. But if it's a criminal offense, all bets are off, the state will be the one to prosecute them (so it's funded by taxes, not by the company, "not worth it" suddenly becomes worth it), plus they will end up in jail not just get a fine or debt.

      Hr1s7i wrote:

      It's only illegal if we consider the ToS of the game as laws. Luckily one doesn't need to agree with the ToS in order to operate a private server. One doesn't even have to agree with the ToS in order to use the client software. Ultimately it's just a program and programs can and do get reverse engineered then altered (meaning you can root that ToS part out and pretend it doesn't exist). Also DMCA can't touch anything when it comes to MMO clients since technically these are given to the end user for free, meaning publishers can't even prove that we used said client or a modded version of it to play on a private server, not to mention implementing any sort of metrics to spy on where we send traffic is grounds for a lawsuit (software rigged to work as spyware).
      Man, who was talking about the client? I'm pretty sure the server's code / files are what is truly "stolen" here. At least, most pservers tend to steal them from leaks etc.
    • @Glacial` On the first part - exactly. There are way too many loopholes and there's no way to deal with them without some considerable infringement on private user activity.
      In regard to the BHS quote - you can download a "modded" client with no T&C on it. No T&C to agree with, nothing for them to latch on. They can't magically "agree for you" instead of you. Law magic in it's finest (if we assume T&C holds the weight of a law, which it doesn't).

      @Borsuc
      1. Charity isn't illegal.
      2. Actually TERA private servers are built over the old Gamerz Network server software. And that is a completely custom server pack, so nothing is being stolen. As for the client - as far as the legal apparatus is concerned, there's a cracked client which was made to work with the above mentioned server pack, but there's no data on who made it or distributed it on the net. Go crack that nut from legal stand point xD
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    • Hr1s7i wrote:

      In regard to the BHS quote - you can download a "modded" client with no T&C on it
      If I understand correctly you say: if a random person downloads the original server files and modifies it which then gets distributed as a modded unofficial server and players will use THAT instead of any other regions' version then it's fine because it was slightly changed in a few ways and you got it from a third party with no T&C?

      It doesn't work like that. As long as they are offering the same content to distribute it but "in a different package" it won't make it any less illegal. Or can be the opposite. They upload a somewhat different game but still labeled as "Tera". Not to mention they'd use stolen content even if it was modded. Check up what happened with "Zonitron Productions".

      This can only work out for them if they mod is so hard, even BHS can't say "it's our game". Because not only the netcode / game scripts can be theirs but the logos, animations, music, cutscenes, monster designs and basically everything you see and hear in it.
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    • Glacial` wrote:

      If I understand correctly you say: if a random person downloads the original server files and modifies it which then gets distributed as a modded unofficial server and players will use THAT instead of any other regions' version then it's fine because it was slightly changed in a few ways and you got it from a third party with no T&C?
      It doesn't work like that. As long as they are offering the same content to distribute it but "in a different package" it won't make it any less illegal. Or can be the opposite. They upload a somewhat different game but still labeled as "Tera". Not to mention they'd use stolen content even if it was modded. Check up what happened with "Zonitron Productions".
      You absolutely missed the point. It doesn't matter if they say it's their game or not. If you don't have a ToS to accept, whatever you do afterwards cannot be sanctioned by anybody. At best they can ask you where you got it from.
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    • Hr1s7i wrote:

      At best they can ask you where you got it from.
      From a game developer which has ToS so anything after the theft/modification/publishing can be dealt with, doesn't matter if this new thing has ToS or not.

      You can't just magically erase all ToS and have the freedom of using something just because a modification from a 3rd party! X/ It'll be still theirs with all ToS applying.
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