Removing rating gap from 3v3 Teams

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    • Removing rating gap from 3v3 Teams

      Upon Atmorph's suggestion, I'm opening this thread to address an issue that is concerning quite some people now. As you may or may not know, there's a certain value or rating difference for which teams can get to play against one another. Exceeding that value leads into many issues and matchmaking glitches. As far as I know, the minimum skill rating for two teams to get matched is within 200 rating, which is ridiculous for a dead battleground that can barely afford 3 teams at its peak. Not only that, but having a team with very high rating ( or very small rating ) in queue causes the MM to glitch out and break the queues for everybody else. The only way to fix this issue is finding out and asking those people to stop the queue and so the other teams are allowed to play.

      The current EU battleground matching is designed for an higher population and at least an 80% more teams in queue, but this is sadly not the case and we're basically dealing with a broken system that MUST be fixed. There's nothing worse than having non-functional battlegrounds, leading to the community to avoid such places. We had 5 teams queing the other day but 3 of them gave up because their rating was too low/the games wouldnt pop due to glitch.


      - We don't have enough playerbase and people willing to queue Teams to even care about "balancing" games. Rating is just a number, and shouldn't prevent games from being played. -

      My team is throwing games on a daily basis now, queing soloq, ruining everyone's experience. Just for the sake of losing some digits and being able to play Teams against other people. This is not how the game should work, it's not how the matchmaking should behave and we're getting punished so badly for something so stupid. The only way we can play is pretending we are bad and -INTENTIONALLY- lose solo queue games. @Atmorph


      I've tried to reachout to Atmorph last week, explained what the issue was and that NA had completely removed the rating gap from their game. This is the reply I got:



      "Thanks for the image, I'll check to see what can be done. But just FYI - this change is not trivial, cannot be done without a maintenance, and will have to be made by Bluehole."





      Nothing was really happening after that so I contacted him again and he suggested to discuss the whole thing through their official forums.

      TD;LR remove or increase rating gap from battleground matching, we are forced to lose rating on purpose and throw games in soloq. It's also causing lots of glitches when more than 3 teams are in queue and one of them has too high/low rating.
    • I'm amazed why Atmorph wanted you to post this on the forum, I mean what's the point and what does he expect? It's a glitch and has to be fixed. Are fixing glitches and bugs a matter of popular vote these days or what?

      If it's for rating gap, then at least fix the stupid glitch first or remove "conditions" (e.g. the gap) if the glitch is the result of this damn gap.
    • "Thanks for the image, I'll check to see what can be done. But just FYI - this change is not trivial, cannot be done without a maintenance, and will have to be made by Bluehole."

      Uhm, does Atmorph talk about fixing the glitch or remove the rating restriction or both?


      Either way, the rating restriction was made to help weaker teams to stay away from much stronger teams. Without (enough) players this "newbie shield" serve no purpose and can be deactivated. At least it should be much easier to deactivate a working game function than searching for the glitch and repair it.
      Frieden ist eine Lüge
      Es gibt nur Leidenschaft
      Durch Leidenschaft erlange ich Kraft
      Durch Kraft erlange ich Macht
      Die Macht gewährt mir den Sieg
      Der Sieg zerbricht meine Ketten.

      Darth Bane
    • Don't hold your breath - 5 teams ( =15 people) mean nothing to him, hence the go-cry-on-the-forum kinda reply.

      They never fixed the stun stats on equalised earrings, nor even commented on mystic motes bug, or the Valkyrie's stun glitch where you get stunned even while knocked down (other stun/sleep skills seem to 'proc' this glitch too sometimes), or getting the fear effect from Zerks while knocked down. Won't even mention the permanent stagger from Valk's basic attacks. They don't even need to stun lock you for 10 sec as they can with 0 effort. Same goes for attack you THROUGH WALLS without any line of sight whatsoever.

      If there's a glitch in the matching system, it gotta be fixed. What's so hard to comprehend? @shop manager
      It's another topic whether removing the rating difference is the right thing to do but better have an imbalanced battleground than a deserted one.

      Sorry but the intentionally losing part is ridiculous - if you can't manage to win in solo queue or can't bear to lose after giving your best, then you shouldn't be doing SR at all, unless your only goal is to always win by cherry picking your party comp as to give the enemy close to no chance to win. For example Valk + Sorc + Priest. I've seen way too many such people fixing their 'solo' queue teams by kicking people until they get a guildie or someone with a high rating because they can't do shit otherwise. Or quitters who would stay at base in Gridiron and Fraywind.

      It's been discussed. Let's see what happens and when. If NA have indeed fixed it already, excuses such maintenance and BHS intervention for tweaking some numbers are just laughable. If it were indeed true, then BHS had already provided a hotfix. You can deliver it ANYTIME YOU LIKE with a 1-minute server restart. I wouldn't be surprised if they was just another lie - just like activating events "wasn't" possible without a maintenance. lol
    • Sunflare wrote:


      Sorry but the intentionally losing part is ridiculous - if you can't manage to win in solo queue or can't bear to lose after giving your best, then you shouldn't be doing SR at all, unless your only goal is to always win by cherry picking your party comp as to give the enemy close to no chance to win. For example Valk + Sorc + Priest. I've seen way too many such people fixing their 'solo' queue teams by kicking people until they get a guildie or someone with a high rating because they can't do shit otherwise. Or quitters who would stay at base in Gridiron and Fraywind.

      Not sure what you meant here but my point was that sometimes when my team is too high for anyone else to play against us, we queue 3v3 soloq and intentionally lose. Now, the best thing that could happen would be if the 3 of us got together, cause pretending to lose brings no harm at that point.. but more than often this is not the case obviously. Throwing games is something that disgusts me and should never be an option, but when you're cornered there's not much you can do. Hope gameforge enjoys soloq becoming a kickfest afk place with people playing at their 1%.


      @Borsuc yeah kinda upsetting. He gave me a positive reply on my first attempt to communicate ( which i mentioned in my first post in this thread ), but my second attempt just led into this;

      "Hey there o/Sorry, but I won't be able to answer to specific requests or give updates towards internal proceedings. Feedback & requests should and will have to be given first and foremost through our official forums - if you want to additional point it out to me, that's fine, but please do not expect a reaction or comment for each suggestion or question.Thank you,Atmorph"

      Just a copy pasted answer that my friend got too around the same hour! There I knew he just turned his eyes around.



      For everybody else, NA did in fact remove the skill gap completely *proof*


      youtube.com/watch?v=0eqZhqv7hO0





      Thanks to Tharee for the vid/pic
    • Why keep playing if there aren't enough people to play with anyways, I mean sure it would be nice but at this point it's just for your ego.

      Most people play with randoms from time to time if what I know is right so just go queue with randoms for a day to premade 3v3 lose your rating while experimenting with other players and queue again with your premade if you want to queue more I guess? I mean there aren't more than 2-3 premades queuing atm most likely so w/e who cares xd.

      It's obviously a "bug" that shouldn't happen but then again it's been around for so long at this point it doesn't even matter imo.

      Edit: EU's main issue is that even if the gap is removed, people won't queue for it what we need is pushing new players to play instead of removing the 200 rank gap otherwise it just feels like you want to farm people since well, the "experienced" players rarely have an issue with the 200pt gap, unless you farm 1 party then that just shows how they aren't good enough to fight you which means you are just better than them.

      Edit2: What EU needs is more players / eq gear / complete reset to rankings
    • Cheezus wrote:

      Most people play with randoms from time to time if what I know is right so just go queue with randoms for a day to premade 3v3 lose your rating while experimenting with other players and queue again with your premade if you want to queue more I guess? I mean there aren't more than 2-3 premades queuing atm most likely so w/e who cares xd.
      Says you, only queing with mirec and ssion for years, now that they quit you're nowhere to be found.


      Cheezus wrote:


      Edit: EU's main issue is that even if the gap is removed, people won't queue for it what we need is pushing new players to play instead of removing the 200 rank gap otherwise it just feels like you want to farm people since well, the "experienced" players rarely have an issue with the 200pt gap, unless you farm 1 party then that just shows how they aren't good enough to fight you which means you are just better than them

      Enzo kuruptiz dramaz paganblood alice spatsu creativeback and so the list goes .. "unexperienced players". keeeeeeepo

      You make it sound like we fight all day against Mystel premades!


      Just because the problem doesnt concern you, it doesn't mean it shouldnt be fixed or changed for the best. Some demonized managed to sign 3v3 and they haven't had a chance to play a single game because guess what, glitch + rating too low. How do you expect people to approach the battleground under these strict conditions, or to improve for the matter. What you say is right, nobody here denies that it should be more appealing and we need people to actually queue. But start from the fundations, not from the playerbase. The matchmaking needs an adjustment, period
    • Rank reset can solve most problems with PvP.

      1. Noone can camp on rating anymore...
      2. Fresh start for new players every month!... This one is actually really important. Some improve a lot, but are stuck with 30-40% win rate.
      3. Smaller gaps between teams... Well atleast for 1-2 weeks.
      4. Some achievements are linked to rank reset (FW).
      5. One or two days before rank reset... Skyring was full of new players in past. So soloq was actually most approachable for new players during that period of time.
    • Sunflare wrote:

      Sorry but the intentionally losing part is ridiculous - if you can't manage to win in solo queue or can't bear to lose after giving your best, then you shouldn't be doing SR at all, unless your only goal is to always win by cherry picking your party comp as to give the enemy close to no chance to win. For example Valk + Sorc + Priest. I've seen way too many such people fixing their 'solo' queue teams by kicking people until they get a guildie or someone with a high rating because they can't do shit otherwise. Or quitters who would stay at base in Gridiron and Fraywind.
      I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

      He's losing solo queue on purpose to lower his rating so he can get matched in premade (they share rating). Could just ask to get kicked, though.
    • I never complained about rating difference though, if I had too much rating I didn't care if I didn't have enough rating I played soloqueue to get it. Also there is a difference between having holidays and quitting.

      Like you said I'm not active for now so I only talk from the footage I see, didn't see alice and spatsu on any of the videos or her updating anything in a month, if they are playing and you guys are "farming" them then sure your case stands.

      I'm just pointing the "actual" issues that needs to be fixed, sure it's a bug and it should be fixed but it isn't the main problem. We need a battleground rank reset / equalised gear to actually push people to play it otherwise it's just meh, you can't count more than 10 "experienced" players, and from out of those 10 maybe there is 1 party that's been playing for long enough to have a synergy so it's obviously better for them to fight against their peers and try to find ways to get good than just faceroll lose in 2 minutes isn't it?

      I mean what's the point of matching a bronze player against a challenger? I see none. I never thought of it as a bug it's what makes premade beginner friendly, for example if a new party keeps getting against you guys they would get disheartened and quit, meanwhile if they get q'ed against other 1.2k-1.3k pt's they can try to improve their gameplay. That's why smurfing exists in many other popular games. Just get alt accounts and q on them if it's bothering you this much.
    • ^ I get your point but the rating glitch is probably a result of the gap in the first place, and it even happened during the eq event when it was active and people were around similar ratings. That shit ought to get fixed and removing the gap does the trick since in NA it works with no glitch.
    • Cheezus wrote:

      for example if a new party keeps getting against you guys they would get disheartened and quit, meanwhile if they get q'ed against other 1.2k-1.3k pt's they can try to improve their gameplay
      Implying there are new ppl...
      Implying that they will even get matched (forget rating)... And implying that 1.2k team wont become 1.3k and new ppl wont go to 900 eventually anyway.

      Rank reset (every month), eq. gear and gap removal is best solution for skyring.

      EDIT: Tera RU had gap set to 400 (for one patch only, its 200 currently)... So thats possible solution too.
    • ofc team 3s needs new people but it's hard to get them to queue...
      I've been trying to get dds for it on weekends but it's really hard even if you set the requiremnts bar really low... and when you get a team you still need to find people for other teams (even harder), because you won't get matched against aiim or kuruptiz team, cause of rating gap...

      List of things team 3s needs:
      - eq gear <- gave up on this one, will never happen sadly;
      - more people <- would be easier with eq gear but I think it can still happen anyway (so many people with BiS or close to BiS in VO);
      - rating gap glitch fix (lul bug fixes in tera), or rating gap removal/increase (much easier for gameforge to do);
      - ranking resets (I guess?), not really sure why this should be needed but it can't harm in any way.. I think bringing back the leaderboards would make this mandatory tho.. and we need leaderboard back..
      - jackpot times overlapping with soloq <- everytime I queue soloq for jackpot I feel like I should just go premade to make it alive... and everytime I q premade during soloq jackpot I feel like I'm wasting time instead of trying to get some of the jackpot boxes to upgrade my gear.. it shouldn't be that hard to make them overlap (with old jackpot times there were bgs overlapping) gameforge please..






      - bring back murderous intent ;(
    • Well, there were many thread about this, and no proper response from Gameforge nor Bluehole!

      I don't agree with the removal of the rating gap! Matching high people with low people is just pure cancer for both teams! Also, you will find some teams abusing it. It's easy to abuse it and no one will know!

      Best now is to make it equalized 1st and increase the reward. So teams can exist! After that we can speak about the rating gap

      @Atmorph , He made a thread in forum, people responded. This thread is not the 1st to be made!

      Now what?
    • Matrixo wrote:

      I don't agree with the removal of the rating gap! Matching high people with low people is just pure cancer for both teams! Also, you will find some teams abusing it.
      Lets be honest here. Low rating players dont que. Every team have players that are capable of getting >1.2k in soloq anyway.

      Now imagine scenario where only two teams are in que. Lets say one team win most of games. Eventually gap will increase (>200), but other team still want to practice (play) vs better team... They dont care about rating (they can just go soloq to get some), they want to practice vs 1.5k team while que is still active.
      And lets not forget matching bug when you have more than two teams in que...

      So gap is useless in 2k17. You dont have 10+ teams playing at once... You made it sound like that... I would agree with you if content wasnt dead... But since its dead, you cant pretend we are in 2013.

      So accept the fact we are in 2k17 and gap wont have any effect whatsoever on low rating teams... Cuz there is no low rating teams... Just 1.5k team vs 1.3k team.

      PS: There is another scenario... When some good ex-PvP players want to create team... But they are all 1k because they played PvE only for past two years... But they cant get matched because opponent is sitting on 1.5k rating for past 6 months.
      TLDR: Reset battleground scores every month....
    • Matrixo wrote:

      I don't agree with the removal of the rating gap! Matching high people with low people is just pure cancer for both teams! Also, you will find some teams abusing it. It's easy to abuse it and no one will know!
      Best now is to make it equalized 1st and increase the reward. So teams can exist! After that we can speak about the rating gap

      Sorry but this is wrong. Like many people have stated already, there's absolutely no reason to try and balancing games with such a low playerbase and teams in queue.
      Even if that wasn't the case, my team has an average of almost 1600 - the only team we play against lately and that I can think of has around 13xx and therefore too low to play against us, even tho they occasionally win and give us hard times. They're all very experienced players who have played 3v3 activevely for several years, but there's this big wall that doesn't allow us and them to improve and try new comps out.

      I don't wanna repeat myself over and over but here's some math - assuming my team has an average of 1600 and enemy team has 1300, that's 100 points too many for us to play against each other. Now considering an average of 4 to 5 ( probably more ) losses you need in soloq in order to get rid of those 100 points, that's 15 soloq games down the train just for my team to be able to play ONE game and go lose some more rating afterwards. People who don't address this issue are just trolls or blind!

      Also, you talk about weaker teams facing exp teams and getting stomped. That's absolutely right but it's either getting stomped or never ever ever improve/play. Altho calling them weak is also wrong since last demonized party that tried queue up had full +15 brawler/valk and what not. And you're a fool for thinking their cheesy classed won't have any impact against us even if played at their worst.


      For everybody else, as much as I'd love for 3v3 to be equalized, rank reset, leaderboard and whatnot, keep this thread focused on the main topic which is gap removal and fixing the glitch. We must go babystep when it comes to PvP changes so let's not give them a reason to ignore us once again..

      Also Synd is right, it's mostly just pretty high teams fighting each other but if you get to win two games in a row against that one team you can already forget the queue to pop. 200 is so bad I can't even comprehend who came up with such value even assuming the game was much more crowded. If they don't want to remove it and you guys whine about "balance" then just double it to 400 and problem fixed. 400 is huge in terms of Skyring!
    • Most of us are just pointing out what is wrong with 3v3 in our opinion, to most of us just like in any other game it's "normal" for 1.6k rated players to not matched with 1.3k an actual way to fix this would be resetting battlegrounds ranks every 1-2 months.

      Just because they give you a "hard time" doesn't mean they are "good". You are at the peek of the ratings so w/e just let the others play get higher enough rating to face you and play when they do.